Occupy Wall Street

[Tinker]

[Mr. Perfect]

[Mr. Perfect]

Oh, and sometime forum search the Spengler forum for your hits on the use of the word teabagger.

[Tinker]

[Mr. Perfect]

As opposed to the free thinkers who just use hostage tactics in order to produce a chilling effect on speech?

And my searches revealed usage of the term at every opportunity, along with terms like gubmint, ant anti-intellectual populism.

[Mr. Perfect]

[Tinker]

[Mr. Perfect]

Well quite clearly you don't like that formula any more. It doesn't work! It backfired! So now you have a new formula, which you will shortly reject, and then another and another, and then you will have invested decades of your life into a long list of backfires.

Nothing would make me happier.

[Mr. Perfect]

[Tinker]

[Mr. Perfect]

[Demon of Undoing]

Ok, I was just on an anon site and they were talking about educating the 100 million people in the US that agree with OWS but don't know it. They had condensed the action message down to four points.

1) Reinstate Glass-Stegal
2)Overturn Citizens United
3)Institute the Warren Buffet rule/ historical tax rates for top 1%
4) Mandate paper ballots

Understood that this is by no means comprehensive or even definitive, but are some of the premier arguments for action. This is what I want to see, specifics. The question I have for Tinker is first if he views these actions as being typical of the OWS line of thought. Second, by what mechanisms does one do this and how does this look any different than other get out the vote movements? Third, if you insist the process is corrupt AND that you want to work within the system, how do you do that? What will make your machinery particularly uncorruptible?

This is what I don't understand.

[Mr. Perfect]

And the problem is that the material is all too little too late. Glass Steagall is meaningless, raising taxes is pissing contest politics and paper ballots that's a consensus view in the campsites? All this is about paper ballots?

What is needed is simply

short term

1) Cut business taxes
2) Cut spending/freeze the budget, gut programs and departments.
3) Slashing of business regulation across the board

long term

1) Seriously bash the Fed
2) Start entitlement privatization
3) Reduce all long term spending.

[Tinker]

[noddy]

australia has public financing for elections, it doesnt stop brown paper bag donations (nothing does) and it encourages lack of participation as all such things do, cause "someone else does it"

calling all goverment "corrupt" isnt intellectual lazy, it maintains intellectual vigour and a healthy respect for liberty and difference

corrupt is just lazy talk for "different agenda" and across the entire population of australia with all its sub cultures and minority cultures .. "different agendas" is the one true thing we all do share

[Mr. Perfect]

Well I'm very happy about it because Tinker and his friends in the campgrounds are just burning enormous amounts of intellectual bandwidth in completely futile exercises. We could call it treadmill racing politics. Running really hard and getting nowhere.

Which is good, because if they could find the weakpoints and concentrate on those they could really do some damage.

[noddy]

hmm, will have to wait and see, those dastardly moderates and their middle ground are already churning their way through the viewpoints and will fire up soon enough.... i predict more redistribution in your future, not less.

[Mr. Perfect]

I don't think so. No more money. We're running deficits in one year equal to all the money spent on wars under Bush. That won't last. Rugged individualism ahead babay.

[the glowing carp]

[the glowing carp]

[Simple Minded]

Tinker,

Oh... The things I could post right now
people are individuals.....
people are a collectivist species......
people who think people are individuals are mentally deficient.....
I'm in favor of individual liberty.... freedom....
lets butt fuck the rich......

Whoever advised you to review your posts was offering good advice. In the 10% of your posts that I have read, your compass needle was spinning like the second hand on a clock.

But I am not going to dog pile on you when you are down dude. Call it personal growth or karma, and chalk it up to experience!
Sucks to try to lead individuals, doesn't it? Or even to try to engage them in discussion......

I can't count the number of times I have tried to convince some dumb fuck that I am smart, they are stupid, my world view was right, and theirs was faulty!

Assuming you are not going to be Head Apparachik at a Re-Education Camp on 1/1/2012.....
I wish you and yours the best of luck setting up your version of Galt's Gulch! That name might be copyrighted, so you may want to call it Tinkertown!

Send me a post card when you get there!
Actually, since there are quite a few of them out there already, you won't have to re-invent the wheel.

In less than 15 years, when your daughter is telling you "Your ideas are obsolete, and that you are mentally deficient, yada, yada, yada, ".... promise me you will think of me!!

Thanks for hosting this forum dude. Good luck!

[Tinker]

Simple Minded:

People are individuals and a collective species. Any other idea is obsolete because it's incorrect.

That has been my point the entire time. The false dichotomy that underlies the essential premise of our political divide is simply incorrect. People are individuals, and society is a collective. It's perfectly consistent, and it is simply...well...true.

[Demon of Undoing]

One of those times where mutually opposing truths are simultaneously real. Happens all the time, but the devil is in the details.

[Tinker]

[Demon of Undoing]

Well, in fairness, they are at times very much opposed, Rand can get boned. As a member of a collective called the US, I am quite often opposed in every fiber to what the collective does. If you don't acknowledge that tension, then you aren't an individual at all. You are at best an ant that is occasionally separated from the hive mind.