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Diegetics • View topic - Junk Science and Quack Medicine

Junk Science and Quack Medicine

Discussions of the material world and its proper study.

Moderator: YMix

Re: Junk Science and Quack Medicine

Postby Rhapsody » Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:06 pm

We, yes WE know that Marcus actually loves things of no value. I'll ask Dr. Phil for clarifications.
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Re: Hoist by your own petard . . .

Postby  ~  » Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:18 pm

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Re: Hoist by your own petard . . .

Postby Marcus » Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:25 pm

I consider looseness with words no less of a defect than looseness of the bowels. —John Calvin
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Re: Junk Science and Quack Medicine

Postby I am ST » Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:28 pm

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Re: Junk Science and Quack Medicine

Postby Marcus » Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:32 pm

I consider looseness with words no less of a defect than looseness of the bowels. —John Calvin
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Re: Hoist by your own petard . . .

Postby Colonel Sun » Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:34 pm

Last edited by Colonel Sun on Wed Oct 20, 2010 5:53 pm, edited 12 times in total.
Never criticize anyone until you've walked several kilometres in their shoes.
Because

1. You're now several kilometres away; and

2. You've got their shoes.
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Re: Hoist by your own petard . . .

Postby  ~  » Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:00 pm

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Re: Hoist by your own petard . . .

Postby  ~  » Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:32 pm

Last edited by  ~  on Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Junk Science and Quack Medicine

Postby Sparky » Wed Oct 20, 2010 10:08 am

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Re: Junk Science and Quack Medicine

Postby Colonel Sun » Sun Oct 24, 2010 12:15 am



Image



Never criticize anyone until you've walked several kilometres in their shoes.
Because

1. You're now several kilometres away; and

2. You've got their shoes.
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Re: Junk Science and Quack Medicine

Postby Colonel Sun » Fri Oct 29, 2010 3:11 am

Never criticize anyone until you've walked several kilometres in their shoes.
Because

1. You're now several kilometres away; and

2. You've got their shoes.
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Re: Junk Science and Quack Medicine

Postby Tinker » Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:19 pm

The canary didn't die because this mine is dangerous, it died because it's lazy and wasn't raised with a proper work ethic.
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Re: Junk Science and Quack Medicine

Postby  ~  » Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:03 pm

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Re: Junk Science and Quack Medicine

Postby Tinker » Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:38 pm

Interesting that it brings rise to contempt from you.

I should think anyone with a passing familiarity with how difficult it is to assemble a particular study should not be surprised that a lot of studies are less rigourous than we might hope them to be. It happens. Particularly in the medical field where a lot of the work requires a subjective report from the patient. It's important to study this, to improve the way studies in medical journals get passed along.
The canary didn't die because this mine is dangerous, it died because it's lazy and wasn't raised with a proper work ethic.
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Re: Junk Science and Quack Medicine

Postby  ~  » Tue Nov 09, 2010 11:22 pm

"Contempt"?

The journalist missed what should be a central focus of his piece. I hope he didn't miss it in his book.
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Re: Junk Science and Quack Medicine

Postby Tinker » Tue Nov 09, 2010 11:48 pm

I think he just assumed that his audience was aware of how medicalstudies are constructed. Studies are categorized by relative criteria, strong or weak sample sizes and all that.
The canary didn't die because this mine is dangerous, it died because it's lazy and wasn't raised with a proper work ethic.
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Re: Junk Science and Quack Medicine

Postby  ~  » Wed Nov 10, 2010 12:34 am

Yeah... and p-values and Wald tests and chi squares and such.
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Re: Junk Science and Quack Medicine

Postby Tinker » Wed Nov 10, 2010 12:53 am

The canary didn't die because this mine is dangerous, it died because it's lazy and wasn't raised with a proper work ethic.
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"42"

Postby  ~  » Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:49 am

While that's pro forma in journalism, one would hope science strives to covariate itself above all that shit.
And unless Freedman's book makes a point to cover the metas of measurements and the increasing difficulty of asking well formed questions, his book may be metastasized by a lay public eager to bifurcate the babby with the bathwater...
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Re: Junk Science and Quack Medicine

Postby Colonel Sun » Wed Nov 10, 2010 2:38 pm

It's an article in the general press, so I wouldn't read too much into it.

However, the most common problems in medical research are that

1/ n is to small. Biological systems have a notoriously large natural variability and the sample sizes for the control and experimental are typically too small.
The size of the groups is often limited by cost and the time taken to obtain such groups, for example, is a double blind drug study.

2/ the experimental design does not properly account for confounding effects other than the effect under study
Never criticize anyone until you've walked several kilometres in their shoes.
Because

1. You're now several kilometres away; and

2. You've got their shoes.
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Re: Junk Science and Quack Medicine

Postby Colonel Sun » Thu Nov 11, 2010 5:49 pm

Science and Mother Nature are in a marriage where Science is always surprised to come home and find Mother Nature blowing the neighbour.

~ Halpern's Dad
Never criticize anyone until you've walked several kilometres in their shoes.
Because

1. You're now several kilometres away; and

2. You've got their shoes.
User avatar
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Re: Junk Science and Quack Medicine

Postby noddy » Fri Nov 12, 2010 1:05 am

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Re: "42"

Postby Tinker » Fri Nov 12, 2010 4:04 pm

The canary didn't die because this mine is dangerous, it died because it's lazy and wasn't raised with a proper work ethic.
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Re: Junk Science and Quack Medicine

Postby Tinker » Fri Nov 12, 2010 4:06 pm

The canary didn't die because this mine is dangerous, it died because it's lazy and wasn't raised with a proper work ethic.
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Sign of the times . .

Postby Marcus » Sat Nov 27, 2010 12:32 am

I consider looseness with words no less of a defect than looseness of the bowels. —John Calvin
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