" Islam-lite " dilusion

[AzariLoveIran]

[Hans Bulvai]

[AzariLoveIran]

[Ibrahim]

In reality the Arab Spring is more about direct democracy than "Islamism," though naturally Islamists will vote according to their views when able. The solution for people who dislike Muslims/Arabs: call them all "terrorists" and never let them vote.

But what is significant for Iran is that it is being demonstrated that tyrants can be deposed in short order, and the Beards running Iran could easily be next on the list. Opposition to the Iranian regime shares many views with the Arab revolutions across the region: respect for individual rights, legitimate political representation, and opposition to state-run thuggery and torture.

[AzariLoveIran]

[Mr. Perfect]

These Arab countries appear to be running into the democracy paradox, ie what do you call it when you use democracy to vote out democracy.

[Tertulian]

Azari,

I do not wish to quibble but my part of Africa - South Nigeria, specifically, the Igbos, have always had democratic values at least since the 10th century. When the British first came into contact with us they were confused with the fact that the chiefs they meet did not think that they had the authority to make decisions on behalf of the people but that each family, actully head of households had to be consulted. It is a messy process and often takes time before collective decisions are taken but gives everyone a stake in the system. In Western and Northern Nigeria the process of representation was a bit different. They had kings who had authority to speak for and make decisions for the people.

Tribal societies are not necessarily anathema to democracy because their system of communalism offers a solid foundation upon which democracies can be built. I agree that it is or at least has been difficult to establish democracies in Arab countries and also in large part of African countries. The same thing holds in Asia. I don't know what accounts for this in most of these countries but can attest that it is very difficult to have democratic societies in Muslim countries. Turkey is an exception but even it practices a sort of constrained democracy. It also had the advantage of suffering a significant defeat in WWI. It is easier to change a society or a country after it has experienced a catastrophic and long defeat.

[AzariLoveIran]

[Tertulian]

Azari,

You make a good point. Would you consider China, India and probably Japan to be tribal societies? Although, I confess that I prefer a different term to "Tribal society". Maybe civilized or communal societies will do. But I do quibble.

Your description of Saudi Arabia seems correct to me and it will please me to end to see what the House of Saud built tumble. I see them as them sponsors and originators of religious intolerance in the world. That said, how would you characterize Iran as a society and would you call it's process of governance a theocratic democracy?

[AzariLoveIran]

[Tertulian]

Azari,

I think I understand now what you mean by tribe and also how you use it. By your definition above, the Igbos of Nigeria are not a tribe but a nation. We do not see ourselves as belonging to or having the same blood lineage. There are millions amongst us whose ancestors migrated into the igbo nation from faraway lands like Egypt, what is today called Israel, from Morocco and also from neighboring tribes and some from the Northern part of Nigeria. They all came and converged because the core philosophy of governance and democratic impulse and commerce suited their outlook. That was the primary motivation for our native democracy - just too many people with divergent backgrounds to be ruled by the iron fist of an autocratic king or chief.

It may also interest you to know that the land in the United States where the Igbos had the greatest impact from the beginning of the 17th century is Virginia where the Igbo captives were taken to as slaves. It is therefore not surprising that that land became a bellweather for democracy in the United States. This is not to diffuse the contributions of others to the American project. But I do digress.

Thanks again for your response.

[AzariLoveIran]

[Ibrahim]

[Sparky]

Yeah. I mean, no tribes amongst Muslims (or Arabs), right? TBH, it was probably something of a blessing for Turkey to be shot of it's empire at the end of WWI. That shit became expensive as time went on in the C20.

As to the Islam night-terrors, Turkey has a fine example of what one sees in Europe with centre right, Christian Democrat parties in the AK. The average AK voter is no more likely to jabber at you and stuff a Koran down your craw that a CD voter in Germany is likely to harangue you in the street and slap you about the face with a fistful of Chick tracts.

Tunisia seems to be panning out to the same way.

[Ibrahim]

[AzariLoveIran]

[Azrael]

I don't like the term "Islam-lite". It implies that if someone is a "real Muslim", they are misogynist, pro-terrorist, etc.

[Ibrahim]

[AzariLoveIran]

[Hans Bulvai]

[AzariLoveIran]

[Sparky]

Your binary reduction of Islam is total and utter bollocks. There are as many flavours and intensities of Islamic adherence as there are species of fish in the sea.

[Hans Bulvai]

[noddy]

[AzariLoveIran]