Gloom, Doom, or Boom? Finance and Economics

[AzariLoveIran]

[Mr. Perfect]

Beginning of the end for the Democrats Az. Once they cut entitlements, all over for them.

[the glowing carp]

[Mr. Perfect]

Probably. If the Democrats sign off on any serious entitlement cuts it will be one of the largest ideological capitulations in the nation's history. There are liberals who will commit suicide. It will make the third rail of US politics not a third rail anymore. It will make entitlements just another program, open to all sorts of molestations. The great Democrat promise to the nation will be broken, and they will agree to it.

And perhaps the most importantly of all, as far as the nation is concerned, if the Democrat governs as a Republican you may as well just vote in a Republican. In fact a liberal Republican like Mitt Romeny will be very attractive, a Republican who doesn't show any zeal in cutting entitlements, just doing what has to be done. With the appropriate emotion on his face at the press conference. The facial expression is very important. You can do anything to anybody with the right expression.

[Colonel Sun]

[Colonel Sun]

[Alph]

[Alph]

Colonel Sun,

China cannot become a consumer economy without extreme social and political changes. It can't keep growing as an export power without the rest of the world's economy being much stronger. It cannot stop growing without its government being compromised by public unrest. So, it will hyper inflate to hide the lack of growth, over invest in infrastructure in a vain attempt to allow real growth to accelerate again, and hope it can weather the storm long enough that everyone else will recover before the effectiveness of its government is compromised by public unrest. If it can, it will pay the price of decades of low growth as it repairs the damage caused here. If it cannot, it will pay the price through reformation or even revolution.

Shame, really. There's plenty of low hanging fruit for them to grasp. It's just not quite as easy as it was before. This will be the test of their mettle, and the sign of whether they're strong enough to take their economy to the next level or not. As they are only human, my assumption is that they will not be strong enough, much as it is with the Americans.

[Tinker]

I see my experience in Haiti writ large in the US right now. Basically one of the major problems in Haiti is that a development project gets started with foreign funds, it outcompetes the local version of the same, becomes the de facto infrastructure then due to foreign political demands the program gets cut and the infrastructure dies leaving a black hole, where previous inferior infrastructure and institutions have been crushed by the more highly resourced foreign organization, but who no longer exist with the foreign organization having superseded it's role.

This is the inevitable evolution of the Democrat v Republican role of government argument. This more than anything is why I have abandoned the bi-partisan ideological fight, it's just not worth it. Both sides are incapable of accomplishing their goals due to their relationship to the other side. If Democrats fund a project, it becomes an intrinsic part of the daily culture at the expense of private sector organizations that fill the same role though less comprehensively. It is comprehensive egalitarian coverage of services that Democrats love, not so-called 'Big' government. The end result is big government, but it's not the goal. When Republicans get their claws and start de-funding entitlements they are essentially devastating the infrastructure that was built up around the prior policy. So not matter what, we are in an ideological boom-bust cycle as the competing interests obey the tidal forces of Conservative/Liberal ideological combat. This process is accelerating and will make infrastructural institutions unstable.

It's neither party's fault, because it is both parties' fault. The political environment is creating an unstable environment for necessary civic institutions.

[skyhook77sfg]

astute incisive observation and conclusion sir

wish to hell we knew what to do with it

other than join DEMON in fomenting chaos...


but anarchism seems to be a taste i've not acquired

only memorable anarchist sentiment encountered was


I am truly free only when all human beings, men and women, are equally free.
The freedom of other men, far from negating or limiting my freedom,
is, on the contrary, its necessary premise and confirmation.
Mikhail Bakunin

[cincinnatus]

Maybe this belongs in the Game of Thrones thread, but...

As I'm reading the 2nd book, I find I picture several of the major player families/individuals as perfect metaphors for the American political parties. One is the scheming, ultra-competent (at the game) and ruthless Lannisters, the other is the f-ing dour, cold, fanatical Stannis Baratheon that no one can love...and they both claim they're the Starks. Everyone not in the game is suffering as their pillagers loot, rape, kill and burn everything to further their cause.

[Colonel Sun]

[Colonel Sun]

[skyhook77sfg]

Funny story, from Reuters columnist David Kay Johnston:

Over the past four years Murdoch's U.S.-based News Corp. has made money on income taxes. Having earned $10.4 billion in profits, News Corp. would have been expected to pay $3.6 billion at the 35 percent corporate tax rate. Instead, it actually collected $4.8 billion in income tax refunds, all or nearly all from the U.S. government.

News Corp.'s tax rate is apparently minus 46 percent. That is obviously heroic, because paying taxes is a crime against liberty.

Also, "News Corp. has 152 subsidiaries in tax havens," which is more than all other large U.S. companies besides Morgan Stanley and Citigroup.


AND THEY WANT TO STOP SOCIAL SECURITY CHECKS FOR REAL PEOPLE TO MAKE UP THE DEFICIT........
oh sorry forgot artifical legal constructs are the real people now according to SCOTUS party hacks.

[AzariLoveIran]

[skyhook77sfg]

Almost 3/4 Of GOP Voters Disagree With GOP Demands


As tensions flare within the GOP over how to deal with the default crisis, party leaders have remained consistent about one thing: They will not support any deficit-reduction plan that increases tax revenues at all, even if it does so by closing wasteful loopholes. The Economist has described the GOP's inflexible position as "economically illiterate," but the Republicans have soldiered on, mistakenly confident that the American people are on their side.

A new poll from Gallup confirms not only that Republicans do not have the American people on their side, but that Republicans do not even have Republican voters on their side. According to the poll, a scant 20 percent of Americans, and 26 percent of self-identified Republicans, agree with congressional Republicans' position that deficit-reduction should be accomplished through spending cuts only.

http://politicalcorrection.org/blog/201107130025

[AzariLoveIran]

[Colonel Sun]

[Colonel Sun]

[skyhook77sfg]

and my thanks again

for most graphically demonstrating the origin of today's debt crisis...

the shift from tax and spend to borrow and spend

was initiated by the Reagan Revolution

[I am ST]

[Tinker]

True, Dems controlled the house until 2010. Then the Reps took it.

[I am ST]

[skyhook77sfg]

good plan

good timing

[AzariLoveIran]