Tea Party

[Mr. Perfect]

[Tinker]

[Tinker]

[skyhook77sfg]

DEMON AINT ALONE

Instead of engaging in distracting partisan politics with the status quo politicians that have ruined America, we need to focus on the mortal economic and social dangers that we are now facing because of the ruinous policies of these politicians.

America cannot afford to spend debt money on global empire dreams. The 2011 national debt, national current account balance and other economic indicators show that America has a negative net worth of -$58 Trillion. This is the truth that globalists are concealing and is the inevitable result of the globalist export of America's industry to Communist China and other cheap labor countries plus all the ruinous policies of the two globalist controlled parties that now require that the Federal government must beg and borrow $1.65 Trillion a year to add to the present national debt of close to $15 Trillion.

TEN Generations of Americans cannot pay the 2011 national debt, but the politicians still borrow and spend. 47% of American households are too poor to pay income taxes. The American industrial base is only 9% of the economy. There are not enough taxpayers to support a globalist government that is fueled by debt..

over 50% of the total USA military forces are war contractors and that 2/3 of their employees are foreigners. We have wasted $5 Trillion dollars fighting Osama's war strategy to bankrupt America as they did the Soviet Union by bringing it into permanent war in the Muslim world. The war contractors and the other special interest groups are making profits from trillions of debt dollars that we'll be forced to pay.

We have to end the wars and occupations immediately and all foreign affairs, including foreign aid and military alliances. Europe and Korea among many other countries are rich enough to defend themselves. We now have 3 Muslim wars, plus NATO and the rest of the military waste, all follies are financed by debt that we will be forced to pay.

We have a President that starts wars, imposes economic sanctions and other acts of war against countries that he does not like without even consulting Congress. Obama refuses to enforce Federal laws that he does not like, including immigration laws. The Congress is not balancing the power of the Executive or Judicial government branches. It abdicated its Constitutional duties and is just a debating society.


The power of the American Presidency must be limited to the American Constitution or we will lose even more than we have already lost. Our freedom.

Roman Gil
http://roman-gil1.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Mr. Perfect]

[Mr. Perfect]

[crashtech]

[Mr. Perfect]

I have an image to maintain.

[Tinker]

[Tinker]

[Tinker]

And everyone who wants this country to not go bankrupt favors modest tax increases. If you don't favor those then you are in favor of the country going bankrupt. You can't have it both ways.

[crashtech]

You know, I was grudgingly allowing for some tax increases in return for some government agencies being erased. But you make bankruptcy sound so attractive, I may slither back to my libertarian roots to let the chips fall where they may.

[Demon of Undoing]

RE: Worst case scenarios

The kind of situation a default would cause will indeed bring some categories of events to fruition that all libertarians may like. Want a dramatically reduced US military/forward presence? The end of entitlement programs in any meaningful sense? End of DOE? DEA? ATF? IRS? Handouts to deadbeat allies? Mohair subsidies? We can have all that. Just let the rest of the world become convinced we are too batshit crazy to be trusted with their money ( may have already occurred), and you will get all that, to one degree or another, fairly quickly. Such a strategy will work.

But the problem with America is the Americans. What will a mostly unskilled and completely uncompetitive guy with a family do when he loses his job, has no unemployment, loses health care, and his kids get hungry ( note, this happens in hours, not days)? Will he suddenly become his leaner, keener ancestor circa 1935 and just power through the new dustbowl with hope in his heart and a gleam in his eye?

Or will he completely lose it, have nowhere to turn, start hurting people to live and join the most effective local thug? Maybe ( and I think we will see a boatload of this, kind of already are) he will simply blow a gasket and go out in a blaze of anger out of a pure inability to cope. Maybe he becomes a refugee in his own country. Maybe lots of things. But certainly, there is little reason to believe that he will suddenly become tougher, more self reliant, better informed and more independent. From whom will he learn this? From what wellspring of family and community tradition will he pull massive guts, two generations out from a nuclear family? What circle of kin and friends will he fall back on and work with? These things, these characteristics are no longer present in this culture in the amounts that will be needed to wire this piece of shit back together when the current troupe of syphilitic baboons lets it come apart.

This is a culture of addicts. We are addicted to ease, to cool, to fun, to challenging, to entertaining. I hate that, I really do. There is no nobility in suffering, only in the man that suffers. We do not posses that kind of nobility. Could it be taught, can it be relearned( if ever it was really known)? Probably, yes. What one man can do, another can do, and it has been done before. But smack addicts can relearn sobriety with little or no assistance. It's just that generally, they don't , and death awaits. What do you think awaits a nation of 320 million, with essentially permanent, high -caliber unemployability and higher-caliber firearms to the tune of about two per adult? In a nation that has historically looked to violence as the multitool of the spirit? That will become increasingly disjointed from the positive structures that make things, in the end, work as well as they can be expected?

This is the black secret of where I go when I think on all the things that make me rage, the things that I would rather do without even while knowing the consequences of doing so. Be prepared for a die-off, a pretty good one. It will manifest itself in things like elevated rates of addiction( I mean , over the elevated rates we already experience), higher homicide/suicide rates, more orphans/sex abuse victims, more wandering mentally ill( damn your zombie jokes, sir, more than one in ten Americans is on a prescribed pharmaceutical designed to tame personality. Three guesses what happens when mother's little helper disappears). More old people dead from stupid things like falls. This is a statistical certainty. And that's the start. Let it go far enough, fast enough, and you get body counts. Serious ones. Ask Mexico what happens when nonstate actors predominate.

Kill this government, yes. Kill the shit out of it. But with what will you replace it? Something better step in. Cold turkey will kill the patient. I advocate getting to the point where there isn't enough of a Federal presence to mess with you, and where the locals are selfishly activist enough to hang people that take advantage of them. I think that's a fine way to be. But to get there, I know better than to create power vacuums in their life. There needs to be a weaning process, and there can be. We can learn a new way to group, or better yet, fully grow into older ways that can be updated for modern usage( why reinvent the wheel when the car is in motion?). But it takes time, it takes support, it takes willpower that damn sure may be flagging or nonexistent . Like it or not, it will take all the resources we can scrounge under this mode of economy( petrodollar/Bretton Woods thing, now dying on a front page near you). It will take shrewd management to have a soft landing, and a willingness to see long terms and sacrifice accordingly. It can be done.

But not practically overnight. It can't be done with a shattered currency and an economy with better than 30% unemployment ( in real terms, that is seriously not all that far off. Don't think it can double? Keep watching.). You can't just pull a hard core junkie off the junk without significant medical support. It will likely kill him. At best, treatment will fail. It's a near statistical certainty. Well, fail here doesn't mean the people will just decide to go back to accruing debt. They will be unable to do so, unable to reacquire that junkie lifestyle. Choosing relapse will not be an option. Choosing death will be, on a failed-state scale that America has no experience of, except in the South ( and even then not in anyone's living memory). This time, though, there will be no magnanimous Federal troops to keep the bulk of the lawlessness down.

Am I building frightening castles in the air? On one level, yes, I sure am. Mr P did in fact warn several months back that there would come a fight( he was thinking a couple of months ago, actually) where the dems and the left would pull out all stops. His conjecture was that it would be over health care, and Dems would start holding pictures up for the camera of grannies that had already been killed by Republican policies, literally using dead bodies for press gain( where have I heard that happen before? Oh, yeah. Everywhere). I might be that very thing in a new iteration.

However, the fight isn't health care. If it were, and the Dems were doing that, if that were their final line of defense, I would say go ahead and load Gran Gran in a trebuchet, launching her in the direction of the CBS press pool to land with a bounce. Why so callous? Because Gran Gran has been made to feel ( so have we all) that we are owed something that was in fact purchased on war -based largess. Sure, the victors can afford solid gold shitters. Why not? The victory wears thin, though, any way you cut it. Under the present system ( or any one envisioned that I have seen), GG becomes aerodynamic, inevitably. That fight Mr P predicted is inevitably going to happen and inevitably going to go one way. Statism can't pay for a nation as large as ours to have the things we expect. I would have that fight based on inevitability, and would shrug off weeping Congressmen like Mama Cass shrugging off a salad( what? Too soon?).

But this is not health care. Health care is a fraction of the enormity of this issue. This whole thing flies on our POS currency, and that is why I have been losing it semi-regularly in a most unmanly fashion, as the professional weasel wranglers destroy the tender they are constitutionally and legally obligated to defend. Bad health care policy can get you pretty far in the toilet ( see where we are now in that respect), and maybe eventually get you all apocalyptic. Currency collapse, on this scale, one never before even dreamed? Oh, that gets you Armageddon on a hot plate. I'll whine a bit about that possibility, thank you very much.

I want less government. I want practically no federal government. Hell, if we're making wishes, you people GTFO and leave me with all the dope , BBQ and redheads. But I don't want decentralization to happen overnight, and I don't want it to happen accidentally, and I don't want it to happen without the people understanding going in exactly what such a maneuver will entail. It's not just a matter of courtesy in wanting their assent. If they are thrown into it, if one day their paycheck doesn't buy a loaf of bread or a DVD or, God forbid, pay the internet bill, shit will be broken, big time. There is a better way to get there. I have argued for those ways, so have a number of conservative/libertarian thinkers way, way smarter and better informed than I. But I don't think a single one of them would advocate doing something that easily could lead to national suicide.

This is where I am as someone that prefers sleeping with dogs on dirt rather than a bed in air conditioning, as someone that understands full well that a dieoff might include him and his, and is still willing to do that if that's what it takes to pull us back from a future that may make Orwell and Malthus look like wide-eyed school children. If that's the alternative Mr P is afraid of, I share his fears, and probably have more of a desire to tear things down to zero to prevent it than he does. For me, it would be payback.

But even saying that, even admitting what a modern perspective must call insanity, I say it doesn't have to be on or off. It doesn't have to be all that, right now. Take a long view, understand where the soul of man lies. It's not going to adapt overnight, or even in a year or five years or ten. There are good arguments to be made that as of now, even the best case scenarios envision a very tough twenty years. And that presupposes no truly suicidal acts like shattering confidence in your currency by choice. If we can lean out and pare down artfully, America can indeed come out on top and so forth and so on, and we can all fart red white and blue confetti at the 4th of July parades.

This, though. This is nuts.



Oh, yeah, content. I don't have any. All I got is this article. There, let's try that. It's slightly less dumb.

[lzzrdgrrl]

[Tinker]

[Tinker]

As entitlements get shorn police presence will increase. The last entitlement to go will be the police state. The road to default is not the road to freedom. It is the road to tyranny.

[Tinker]

Krauthammers suggestion is tax cuts for billuonaires. What a fucking tool. He is basically saying that unless Obama capitulate to Conservative magical thinking that has no basis in reality, that he is being self serving. Until Republicans put taxes on the table, they aren't honest partners and it is a goid thing that they are set to take the fall here. Everything he accuses Obama of the GOP is doing more and harder. Saying that unless Obama capitulates to anti-scientific conservative hoodoo, Obama is being unreasonable. Fuck that.

Raise fucking taxes on the rich. You can cut entitlements too, but a tax increase is more important.

Call Norquists bluff. I don't want to live in a police state with no consumer protections.

[crashtech]

So you say if we don't support tax increases we support a police state, while you rage against "binary thinking?"

[Demon of Undoing]

True as far as it goes.

However, I don't think Tinker is making a binary choice so much as a reasonable supposition. The last thing they will cut is indeed the security apparatus. Not for the cheap seats; they can sink or swim, and everybody knows it. But the new stuff, the cheap stuff, the computers with camera eyes and the shock troops, no. They will be with us to the bitter end.

[AzariLoveIran]

[Tinker]

[crashtech]

How does one advocate for that?

[Tinker]

[crashtech]

I'm not convinced that being against bigger government and tax increases automatically means one is promoting a police state. That's like the flawed argument about chasing fleeing felons, someone might get hurt so don't do it. I think we have to chase fleeing felons because it is the right thing to do in most cases, and we have to pursue a reversal of out-of-control big gov, because it is also the right thing to do.

Yeah, someone might get hurt.

[Tinker]