Guns Thread

[Sennacherib]

[Marcus]

My idea of fun . . that's a Hatfield, .36 caliber flintlock:

Hatfield.gif (115.34 KiB) Viewed 3337 times

[Demon of Undoing]

Glad you started this here, didn't want to be the one for fear of being a one-note Johnny .

I find it odd ( but not surprising) how much focus goes into the selection of a sidearm for the military . It is statistically not used in terms of how many people actually get killed with the thing in relation to mortality from war in general . Maybe slightly more than the bayonet , but not much . The controversies surrounding the adoption of the Beretta in the early 80s were epic , much ink was spilled, and congressmen that don't know a bullseye from bullshit had their full say on the issue . If you didn't know better , you'd think it was Facebook or something important .

But actually it is important . A pistol, like a bayonet or even skill at unarmed combat , is a confidence builder . Not in a " " sort of way . That is something that people who have seen a lot of TV and have never been in harms way for extended periods of time might think. But the fact of the matter is that when you have things seeking your life , it is comforting to know that there is a base level of preparation that is always with you ( as a pistol belt probably should be for a soldier, even going to the loo) that will allow you to fight your way to an adequate defense . Having that sense of not being quite helpless no matter what compounds with other skills and mindsets and allows one in sum to do things that one otherwise might not. The handgun is carried against the possibility of encounter , and is no more cumbersome, traumatic or strange than having a cell phone or a fire extinguisher in the kitchen .

As well, for some soldiers , a pistol is a required piece . Sennacherib put up a poem about the tunnels in Vietnam , which were often so tight that even a pistol could only be employed with much difficulty . In any sort of a CQB situation, when the primary weapon goes down, you have little other choice than to transition to a backup ( guns go down when you are using them, which usually means the other guy is using one, too ) . Clearing a malfunction under fire is, I am told, one of the least pleasant experiences one can have in terms of stress levels ( " worst sound in the world is a click when you want a bang" - Jeff Cooper ) .

As to something to replace the .45 ACP, I am not sure that the 20th century didn't see the arrival of some kind of point of diminishing returns . Unless there is some huge leap made in technology, there are only marginal improvements to be had for tremendous investment . How much better can we do than a 14 shot .45 ? Can we get much more lethality , lighter weight and usability than an AR at a cost that will be worth it ?

One of the biggest problems I have with writing scifi ( and I am trying it right now) is envisioning where weapons development is going to go . Twenty years can be done believably. Fifty, no.

Oh , well. Here is something I am thinking of getting as a " Ah, shit" gun.

[Sennacherib]

[Demon of Undoing]

... ( caution: severe Russian language)

[~]

The first long gun I ever bought. And still my first choice when I don't want to play with my food...





It's had some mods since then...

[Demon of Undoing]

It's not appropriate there , but in the "Poigniant Pictures" thread , the top child soldier pic that An put up is carrying a museum piece.



Unless that is a local copy ( I believe Colt's did license some machinery to Asia) , that's an original Colt Commando , the XM177E. The dead giveaway is the lengthened flash hider but even more , the lack of the forward assist. I just saw something mentioning one going for > $20k.

[Demon of Undoing]

Ladies and gentlemen , the

Not sure how it will do over time , but the theory is sound as long as they can keep good mass and a predictable wound track for the base of the round. I like the idea of having a slug that doesn't overpenetrate. If you can consistently get a total energy dump out of a 12 ga round , you have found the last word on lethality for human sized targets.

[Sennacherib]

[Demon of Undoing]

The dramatic difference marksmanship plays can't be overstated. On the one extreme you have stories of Russian conscripts who even though in line could not get rid of Finns that were hopping cover to cover to kill them. On the other you have the SF(A) team where 2/3rds of the people there were sniper qualified , from Gulf One. The Iraqis tried repeatedly to overrun them , but were devastated by fire six hundred meters before they could even think to engage effectively. Firearms are not equalizers, they just raise overall lethality.

[~]

[Demon of Undoing]

Almost certainly the man that has killed more people with bullets than any other in history ( short of perhaps a Maxim gunner or two from WWI , and then only maybe).

[Endovelico]

When I hear the word "gun", this is what comes to my mind:



This is what I played with, ages ago...

[Demon of Undoing]

[Demon of Undoing]

[Endovelico]

[I am ST]

Endovelico's youth. Back when white leftists were armed with more than lattes and tweeter feeds. Even if, ironically, they may have been serving a right-wing government at the time.

[Endovelico]

[Demon of Undoing]

I have read a bit of the story of the Rhodesians and the SADF in the 70s , but that's about it on Africa before 1995 or so .

Looks like a fun place . I have read of rebels transforming rifle ammo from one caliber to another by cold forming cases that were trimmed with pangas in the chambers of their FALs . Gotta love man's ingenuity in killing man, eh ?

Ive thought of getting a G3/HK91 . Why the preference for the AK ? I think I may know, but I want your thoughts , if you will pardon the intrusion and will share .

[Sennacherib]

[~]

[Demon of Undoing]

I've got an 18.5 in bbl on my Rem 700 in the same caliber. It will definitely stop conversation at the range.

Good on ya with the bear. BC ?

[~]

AK - I get around.

[Colonel Sun]

[Endovelico]