The Black Swan

[Tinker]

[Mr. Perfect]

Well before anybody goes any further we should talk about something.

Artists are motivated, in no particular order:

1) Getting chicks or dudes, depending on your tastes
2) Being cool
3) Hanging out with a certain crowd
4) Being top dog in a certain crowd
5) General fame
6) non-general fame
7) Money
8) Living a certain kind of lifestyle (the non-financial aspects)
9) Sometimes they actually like the actual activity of doing the art
10) Validation of many different stripes
11) Gaining/exhibiting an identity

and on and on. A lot of passive aggressive stuff.

As far as art vs. commerce, that is impossible, that is like saying wood vs. tree. Producing art consumes resources like most everything else, as a result has to be paid for somehow. Art and commerce are the same thing, therefore cannot be against each other in the way often described.

Or more clearly, art vs commerce implies there is such a thing as art that can be created without any commercial/financial consideration.

I didn't explain that very well but you be able to get the gist.

[Tinker]

Wow, you picked like pretty much every dismissive/condescending aspect of being an artist you could find.

You don't spend much time around artists do you?

The number one aspect for why someone becomes an artist is much simpler than all that. Because they HAVE to. They have a compulsive need to be an artist.

Your list is for posers. Not to say that some of those aspects don't apply to real artists. But you're talking about dilettantes. My ex-girlfriend who is a painter for instance will often not even leave the house. She'll paint a huge canvas and then not show anyone. When she does decide to leave her hermitage she can get dressed up and be the life of the party, and have everyone treat her like a serious artist without showing them a single piece of work because she just exudes 'artist'. For her none of that social criteria really applies at all.

For the most part the criteria you mentioned HINDERS the artistic process. Oftentimes a brilliant and challenging idea comes into your mind, and then you start to imagine what all these imaginary people might think about it, and slowly the vision becomes less and less clear.

What the film was about, and what any true artist can tell you about is that glory moment where you know you have done something captivating and mesmerizing. Where you have outdone yourself. It's kind of like if you were an athlete and you held the school record for the fastest 400 meters, and then you keep running the 400 meters just so you can beat it. Then finally when you beat it, that feeling you get? That's what a real artist is striving for.

A real artist is in it for the glory, and the criteria for glory are quite often very esoteric to the unitiated observer.

You are right that art consumes resources. And for a person whose trade is not always the most lucrative, that can cause a pretty serious problem. That's why many artists live in poverty. So there certainly is a tension between art and commerce. It can be difficult to paint while you are thinking about paying your bills, and conversely, sometimes the struggle can help foment one's most brilliant work. But none of that is really hear nor there in terms of the film as the film was about one of the top funded ballet companies in the world. The dancers likely didn't have to think about the commercial aspects of the production much at all. The only time it was even brought up for Natalie Portman's character was when she was required to schmooze at the fundraiser.

[Mattmovies]

[Mr. Perfect]

[Mr. Perfect]

[Mattmovies]

[Mr. Perfect]

Bingo.

[Mattmovies]

[Mr. Perfect]

I think you've really hit the nail on the head. For me the business/career management of show biz is far more interesting than the product, and is about the only pop culture I've ever really been interested in, but even then it is pretty limited.

When you get to a certain point in your art, for a lot of people it becomes really a letdown. After you've learned all the songs, discovered the tricks in writing them there can be a real let down. A lot of people don't know how to handle it. I don't. I still like it, but when I play all I can think about is the trickery, which is not particularly interesting once it becomes second nature. I can blow through solos that took me a year to learn while thinking about how much laundry I have at home. You can see it in people when they do their thing. Going through the motions. Searching for the drug that used to get you so high, in futility. Some people respond with denial, like say U2 or Spielberg (I'm doing something important. Relevant. I'm serving something larger than myself). Some people stay in the grind (like Motley Crue), resigning themselves to it, and justify continuing because it's "their job".

It's all over the music biz. If you grind to the beat a little harder, that beat that is 40 years old and feels older, then maybe it means something. Hit that chord progression one more time that spawned a few thousand songs before. For a lot of guys it's just still being in the game, because the alternatives are so seriously humiliating after you've seen your name in lights.

[Tinker]

[Tinker]

[Tinker]

[Tinker]

[Mattmovies]

[Tinker]

Being that my wife works with the people you are referring to every day, and I mean the EXACT people you are referring to. I must say, you are over-estimating the media-savvy of corporate executives.

Too bad about Wolverine. Could be amazing if Aronofsky has creative control. Unlikely that he will though. Fox is notorious for fucking up X-Men. Robocop would've been better. Perhaps if he took on Batman after Chris Nolan, if Chris Nolan ever wants to stop milking that cow that is. Legendary is a better company than Fox.

Remember, Brian Singer was escorted off the lot by security over X-Men. That's how they treat real auteurs at Fox. On that note, I am late for my Usual Suspects viewing party. Adieu.

[Mattmovies]

[Tinker]

I don't think it's a matter of savvy. The people with the purse strings have more power than they did 30 years ago, but that doesn't make them savvier.

[Yukon Cornelius]

[Yukon Cornelius]

Just thought of this though -- who here would poo-poo Dark City? Probably no one.

Even with the horror-boobies elements, I must say everyone here would agree it kicked ass.

[Mr. Perfect]

[Mr. Perfect]

[Tinker]

[Tinker]

[HAL9000]