How can you be a militant atheist?

[Rhapsody]

Of course creeds 'n stuff can be missed. Reality matters. But if we need magic(k) aqa Tinker then what about "religious magic", does it mean anything to anyone?

Some old religious meanings got lost perhaps, in translation and over time. The cultures of the Meddle East from which Judaism, Christianity and Islam sprang were very different from ours today. But a good start is to realise that for instance Muhammed and his friends did loads of poetry, as did many others of their time. The Judaic Prophets were first of all celebrated poets that created and added to the "magic curriculum" of the social psyche as it existed and expressed itself in writing.

The sense of some ultimate inspiration and creativity where things seem to occur "by themselves" ie without the conscious direction, effort and will of the person.. still exists today. Some people have this more often than others, but we all know this phenomena to some degree. It can happen when you are alone but it can also occur group-wise. The latter I think is especially interesting and valuable. As the New Testament poet wrote: "For where two or three are gathered together unto my name, there am I in the midst of them."

To some calling those demi-gods and saints "poets" is shear heresy of course. But the real heresy occured once this natural phenomenon got lost in translation. Catholicism kind of preserved some of the magic via ritual and poetic chants and rants.. without reason demanding it to make any sense (rightly so); Protestantism though threw the baby away with the bathtub water by putting up a reasonable face and talk about "Jesus the Son of God" as if it were as obvious as "Jo the son of the Plumber who lives in Elmstreet". (the RCC became unreasonable of course too, but not on religious matters)

[CgDs]

[ansuchin]

[CgDs]

[Tinker]

I am rather surprised that this thread is still interesting on page 6. Thanks CgDs, Ansuchin, Caskhades and Pantagruel.

I particularly like the juxtaposition of Caskhades and Ansuchin on the brain-hacking thing.

I am of the opinion that ultimately brain-hacking is a part and parcel of life, but I understand Caskhades point of view. I like looking up from my karmic bonds at the young whipper-snappers. I've always felt like an old soul myself. I have come to realize that my own inability to be satisfied is the root of my unhappiness. I have seen a great deal of trauma in my life, but most of it was before the age of 15. All of my trauma since 15 has been a result of my own behavior. So brainhacking for me is a necessity. But had my traumas been a bit different in early childhood, I was the sort of kid who could just lay in the Sun basking in the Sun's rays and be happy with that. Then somehow this idea that I 'should' be ambitious planted ambition in my mind and I've never really been happy since.

[Rhapsody]

Beliefs of sorts... indeed color, shape and utlimately condition (together with many other drivers and forces) our behavior. One way or the other. Also a mismatch between ideal and reality has its own mechanics and output.

I suppose.. we can call this observation...empirical? Or should we again bow to the warriors of definitional warfare and call even that a beliefsystem of its own? I would say there is no faith or belief system that can escape the causal web and can therefore be observed empirically; from whence it came, and to where it leads or goes.

Rather than the endlessly boring question whether something is a belief or not, a more fruitful approach is to simply talk about thought. We have all kinds of thoughts, are talker and listener at the same time. We ask questions and put exclamation marks at the end of sentences, have various expectations confirmed and rejected all the time, we weave many stories. Sensory input we get from the inside and outside world. A lot just happens without there seems to be any central control, although conscious experience appears to serve as the cockpit of an airplane where information comes together and is used to determine the next action. A lot of action usually means inaction and autopilot, or sleep.

Lions naturally sleep 20 hours a day: no need for more waking hours. I am pretty sure that if they were exposed to human beliefsystems like Christianity and able to absorb only part of it, they would have much less sleep and bother themselves a lot with things they never needed to be bothered about before. Especially because it forces them to connect dots that seem to exist in separate worlds that never touch. The mental force needed to make them touch...

CAVEAT: so do we need more sleep, more powernaps like lions do... to be fresh, fast thinkers and actors and only when it really serves our purpose of survival? The cult that we need to be more conscious, do fancy excercises, promote awareness via written philosophical cook books... I suspect that some of us choose these actions to just tire themselves enough and get a good nap anyways.

[Tinker]

[Rhapsody]

[Tinker]

[~]

[CgDs]

[Rhapsody]

[Rhapsody]

[ansuchin]

[CgDs]

[Caskhades]

[CgDs]

[Caskhades]

[CgDs]

[Caskhades]

[CgDs]

[ansuchin]

Some questions, some that are likely rather impertinent of me.

What is the benefit of engaging in discussion with people whose understandings are already well confirmed and established?

No one is going to modify their settled points of view from the discussion, so what, exactly, is the point? Is it interesting? How?

Or is simply the game of debating somehow enjoyable for its own sake like playing a verbal round of checkers?

[CgDs]

[noddy]

id like to comment again after my drunken login last friday, but alas im still chortling at the freedomhouse index.

Have social and economic freedoms, including equal access to economic opportunities and the right to hold private property.

isnt the definition of the above the entire argument everyone has been having on all these boards since the dawn of time (tm) (parent pending)

i am particularly amused with the equal access to economic opportunities and the right to hold private property

it just had to be a teenager who wrote that.. has to be.... someone who has absolutely no idea just how much they take for granted via cultural upbringing and has never left their small circle of like mindeds.

[noddy]