The Israel Thread

[skyhook77sfg]

by Caskhades » Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:19 pm

skyhook77sfg wrote:
THE ABOVE...

"the last time the US withdrew into isolationism, abdicating its global role,"



leaves that peculiar aftertaste smacking of pretension to divine right to rule...

a particularly noxious notion to the yeomen of washingtonian and jeffersonian democracy born on the north american continent.

leads to the autonomic reflex popularly called gagging by common sense americans.

and expulsion of odious contents .


Yes, it stinks, doesn't it?

In fact, I'd go as far as saying that the stench is almost as bad as that of the rotting sky-high pile of American and foreign corpses that were needed to restore order the last time, that small incident called WWII.

Do you truly think America would have been safer allowing the monster Saddam to take over Kuwait and KSA? Did we really not have "any strategic dispute" with him? Do our cars run on air and love?


FIRST

perhaps you are to young to recall that "sky high pile of rotting corpses in that small incident called ww II did not come about by misleading and false reasons for a preemptive illegal invasion....

common sense americans in those days could not be convinced, cajole or coerced into war until attacked.....

SECOND

that monster saddam you refer was our monster.. do some research into his early days when he was just a local thug under cia tutelage, protection and support and then do some reading on why we financed and furbished his CBR programs... you will discover some more stink you need to know about.

THIRD

if the US did not want saddam to STOP KUWAITI SLANT DRILLING INTO IRAQ OILFIELDS BY FORCE

ALL OUR AMBASSADOR APRIL GILLESPIE HAD TO WAS TELL HIM WHEN HE ASKED FOR PERMISSION...

for some strange reason she said the US didnt care....


FOURTH

just because your car needs POL products does not create some sort of overriding right to meddle in other peoples lands.

if that's your bottom line rationale, start drilling off Malibu and Miami.

better yet get a bicycle to ride to the rapid transit station.

[Caskhades]

[skyhook77sfg]

the necessity to deal with Hitler was the consequence of US meddling in the first european war.

wilson had vowed in his reelection campaign to never send american boys to die in europe.

but then the germans defeated the russians and were about to overwhelm the bulls and frogs.

wilson's creator, jp morgan was about to loose beaucoup bucks on loans to the bulls and frogs.

so he pulled wilson's strings and voila...

us saves morgans loans.

bulls and frogs make impossible demands at versailles.

weimar inflation, chaos, national socialism, hitler....

all because the international order imposed by brits and french refused to recognize german rights to colonies, global navy etc. even though the german economy had already surpassed theirs..

and amnericans made it ncessary to fight another war by ignoring washington's warning....

which is still ignored today.


see US favoritism in ME


as to saddam, you ignore the reality he would not have survived his first failed coup attempt without cia support and succor.

he was our man way before our king of kings in iran became the flying dutchman.


now that we have that straightened out, glad to hear you're a two wheeler.

I prefer a horse.

[Caskhades]

Gosh, judging by your revisionist history, Americans haven't done anything right since independence, have they?

Britain played the balance of power in Europe for 400 years, the WWI was America doing the same. It was and still is not in America's interest that a single power dominate all of Europe, especially a militaristic aggressive one. The Kaiser plan was the same as Hitler's - first Europe, than the world. The problem was not intervention, once intervention is seen to be in America's strategic interest, but intervention followed by retreat, causing a power vacuum.

As to whether Wilson had a better grasp of what is America's long terms strategic interest than G W Bush in starting their respective wars, I leave that for the readers.

As to Washington's anti-foreign entanglements statement, that was written in an age before industrial armies, airplane fleets and ICBMs, and when America was nowhere near the top economic power in the world. The world has changed in 215 years. To speak nothing of the sheer irony of the Revolutionary War being won in no small part due to "foreign entanglements."

But enjoy your simplified isolationist version of history. [\end Israel Thread hijack]

[skyhook77sfg]

enjoy your non response response to specifics with generalities that sweep discussion into patronizing disdain mode.

very talmudic.

babylonian style.

[Caskhades]

"Specifics"? Don't make me laugh!

JP Morgan dictating war ... German unrestricted submarine warfare on American shipping had nothing to do with it, I take it?
Claims of 50,000 Jewish-provided mercenaries to save a famous Jew-hater, with no sources to speak of aside from "Egyptian sources."
Dark shadows everywhere...

ST was right. You are, in your own way, as deep into conspiracy theories as Azari. Another to add to the ignore list.

[skyhook77sfg]

please do.

be delighted to see you piss off.

cheers.

[AzariLoveIran]

[YMix]

[Caskhades]

[YMix]

The US o' A.

[Caskhades]

I mean, all three tried, but I'd say that my favorite homeland (US of A) added the extra kink of conquering a whole freaking continent first and filling it up with labor and industry. I think that might have helped a bit.

[skyhook77sfg]

grounds for hope from the ethnocracy with national health care paid for by US taxpayers....






Many Israelis have reacted with suspicion and doubt with respect to the current earthquake affecting the Arab and Muslim world, on the grounds that it is not ripe for democracy or that democracy will in fact increase hostility toward Israel. This is an arrogant and egocentric point of view, which assumes that the entire Middle East revolves around Israel - just as for thousands of years, the planet Earth was considered to be the center of the solar system. Indeed, in 1514 Copernicus showed that the sun does not revolve around the earth, but rather the opposite.

The events of this winter are presaging a Copernican revolution in the Middle East: It turns out that Israel is not at its center, and that the tremendous energies displayed by the masses involved have no connection to it at all. The WikiLeaks documents that were revealed recently also confirm this Copernican revolution.

The time has come to remove our geocentric and egocentric glasses. It is permissible to adopt a moral position when oppressive regimes collapse. It is permissible to admire masses that take to the streets in face of tanks, battleships and airplanes, even at the price of thousands being killed.

The new leaders in the Middle East, whoever they may be, will most probably remember the strength of the people's will and rage, and will not hasten to return to the old tactic of hatred and oppression. And contrary to the forecasts of the experts, in such a Middle East perhaps also an Israeli-Palestinian peace, based on two states for two peoples, will also have more of a chance.


http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/op ... l-1.347565

[skyhook77sfg]

WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE TUNISAMI ROLLS OVER THE 40 YEAR OCCUPATION?






Israel can't use force against the next Palestinian uprising
The uprisings against autocratic kings, sultans and presidents in North Africa and the Arab world, too, are causing the Palestinians some discomfort, leading many to question why the Israeli occupation persists.

By Menachem Klein

What conclusions can the Palestinians draw from the unrest in the Arab world? Salvation will not come from the United States, which does not support Abbas despite the multiple concessions he has made. The documents released by Al Jazeera recently disclosed just how far he was willing to go in the negotiations with Israel, but he received no assistance from Washington.

As if that were not enough, the United States decisively vetoed the UN Security Council resolution condemning the settlements. And all this despite the fact that in the past - after Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu caused headaches in Washington and expanded settlements in Jerusalem and the West Bank (thus putting a stop to the peace process ) - the United States itself slammed the settlement enterprise.

The events of recent weeks demonstrate that nonviolent civil uprising, not diplomatic concessions, bring American support. Abbas in the past firmly rejected proposals from various circles to organize a nonviolent mass uprising.

Top Palestinian Authority and Fatah officials took steps to contain the weekly protests in Bil'in and other West Bank villages. They were wary not only of the rise of political rivals, but also of a slide into violence that could only hurt the Palestinians, as indeed occurred in the second intifada. The balance of power in the event of violent confrontation is in the hands of Israel, which has an interest in encouraging such a slide in order to overpower the Palestinians.

The situation is different now. The positive model of the nonviolent rebels throughout the Arab world and their self-restraint could teach the Palestinians that this is the way to historic gains. If Israel uses violence to suppress the Palestinian demonstrations it will be seen as another Muammar Gadhafi or Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

There is a great unease on the Palestinian street. Disappointment over the peace process and over Israel and the United States is rampant. Palestinian society has the kind of technological infrastructure that in other places was the engine behind mass demonstrations - Internet, cell phones and satellite dishes. The "generational accelerant" that was a factor in Egypt is already in place: Palestinian society is a society of young people whose futures are blocked by the occupation. The second intifada and Israel's iron fist shaped the teen years of today's 20-somethings, and constituted their first contact with politics.

Soldiers, settlements, checkpoints and restrictions have long been part of their daily life. All that is needed is a single spark. The writing is already on the wall.

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/op ... g-1.347811

[Joao Paulo]

[monster_gardener]

[Hans Bulvai]

[skyhook77sfg]

GEE WHIZ....

THAT'S WHAT MUBARAK SAID TOO.

[AzariLoveIran]

[AzariLoveIran]

.

This bizarre

Charley Sheen

pulls a knife on his wife

consumes drugs (you name it) like no tomorrow

fucks with 10 hookers (at the same time) and brags about it

you name it he done it

But

Nothing happens to him

And

The idiot

Just murmurs

Bingo

He fucked


.

[AzariLoveIran]

[skyhook77sfg]

A PROFOUNDLY WISE EULOGY FOR A MOTHER, FATHER AND THREE CHILDREN


We are not the same people that we were before these murders. On both sides, the killing of children leaves terrible scars. The scars tempt us to feel the deaths of our own children and somehow process or deny or legitimize or excuse away the deaths on the side of our neighbor. Our enemy. Even worse, in some respects, than an eye for an eye, is the state to which we have descended – a blind eye for a blind eye.

If there is any meaning at all to this week and to this tragedy, it is this: No child is an enemy. No child.

If there is any hope in this, it may be in the words of a Palestinian shopkeeper in Nablus, the city a few miles north of the Fogels’ home in Itamar, a city Israelis have long feared as a center of some of the bitterest of their enemies.

"They were people who were at home, sleeping, in their place of safety," the merchant said of the Fogels, out loud, on television. "Just like that – to come in and kill them with a knife? Where is your heart? Where is your sense of mercy? Where is your humanity? Where? This is simply – this man has no heart. He has nothing. Whoever did this is an animal."

If there is any lesson in this, it is that the children of Itamar, of Nablus, of Jerusalem, of Rafah, of Tel Aviv, deserve better from us. We can choose to believe that the Gaza child throwing candies to celebrate the murders represents the will of the Palestinian people as a whole, just as Palestinians can decide that the Jewish child in the Sheikh Jarrah settlement who will on Sunday night sing Purim songs celebrating Baruch Goldstein, represents the will of the Jewish people as a whole.

Or we can choose to believe that all of us, Palestinian and Jew, are nothing more or less than human beings, loving, caring and, yes, mortally imperfect. And that most of us, on both sides, are people who, despite everything - despite their grief and their rage and their one-sided, blind-eye narrative and their truly unjust history and the guaranteed injustice of any possible solution – actually want the same thing: a future for their children in an independent country living alongside and at peace with the people who are now their enemy.

For every child. Both sides. For every child.


haaretz.com

[AzariLoveIran]

.





.

[skyhook77sfg]

UN chief slams Israel's killing of Palestinian children in Gaza

UNITED NATIONS, March 22 (Xinhua) -- UN Secretary-general Ban Ki-moon on Tuesday strongly condemned the killing of three Palestinian children and their uncle, and the wounding of 13 other civilians by an Israeli tank shell in the Gaza Strip.

A statement, issued here by Ban's spokesman, said that the secretary-general "is very concerned at an escalating situation in Gaza and southern Israel. He reiterates as well his condemnation of rocket fire by Palestinian militant groups in Gaza, including from populated areas, against civilian targets in southern Israel. "

"He calls on all to respect their obligations under international humanitarian law and human rights law," the statement added.

The killing took place earlier on Tuesday, the statement noted.

Tension between Israel and the Palestinians mounted on Tuesday after Israeli artillery shelling killed seven people, including three children, and wounded 10 others in response to Gaza militants' homemade rocket attacks on southern Israeli communities.

The Israeli artillery fired six tank shells on Tuesday afternoon at a house and a soccer playground in Sheja'eya neighborhood in eastern Gaza City, killing four, including three children and an old man, and wounding 10 others, Palestinian medics and witnesses told Xinhua.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/w ... 792970.htm


The "cockroaches in a bottle" strategy

and US tax dollars hard at work...

[AzariLoveIran]