The Israel Thread

[Azrael]

Nick Cohen writing for The Observer:

The Arab revolution is consigning skip-loads of articles, books and speeches about the Middle East to the dustbin of history. In a few months, readers will go through libraries or newspaper archives and wonder how so many who claimed expert knowledge could have turned their eyes from tyranny and its consequences.

To a generation of politically active if not morally consistent campaigners, the Middle East has meant Israel and only Israel. In theory, they should have been able to stick by universal principles and support a just settlement for the Palestinians while opposing the dictators who kept Arabs subjugated. Few, however, have been able to oppose oppression in all its forms consistently. The right has been no better than the liberal-left in its Jew obsessions. The briefest reading of Conservative newspapers shows that at all times their first concern about political changes in the Middle East is how they affect Israel. For both sides, the lives of hundreds of millions of Arabs, Berbers and Kurds who were not involved in the conflict could be forgotten.

link

[Colonel Sun]

[Ibrahim]

[Rhapsody]

I think we should not care about people more than is absolutely necessary. Azrael will be pleased to now know he does not need to be so obsessed with Israel anymore.

[AzariLoveIran]

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[AzariLoveIran]

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Talk-shows full of Jewish leaders debating the case.

I sympathize with Jewish leaders .. looking at that video shows what a POS this Galliano must be, most in fashion industry are like him .. Yaaaak

But ..

I think the Jewish leaders asking the wrong question .. they debating the laws (and mind set) against saying this and that ..

But , can thinking and opinion and views (and prejudice) be legislated ?

In west, America & Europe, there are the right laws about these kind of things .. even pre-Hitler Germany had those laws .. do they (or did they) do any good ?

NO

Does Iran has laws re anti Jew or anti Christian and bigotry ?

NO

Why, in west, lately, celebrity and journalist coming out of closet attacking Jews ?

That is the question Jewish leaders must ask ..

Why ?


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[HAL9000]

[AzariLoveIran]

[Alexis]

[AzariLoveIran]

[Alexis]

[Colonel Sun]

[AzariLoveIran]

[Caskhades]

The "Land for peace argument" is nonsensical, which is why it was abandoned.
Withdrawal from Sinai, Lebanon and Gaza have not purchased lasting peace, as even the Egyptian commitment to peace will waver in the chaotic and likely Islamic influenced future of that country.
Why would withdrawal from the West Bank be seen by the Arabs as anything more than just another step towards removing the "Zionist Entity" from the Middle East? Neither Gaza or the WB have a real economy, so thinking of them as anything more than staging grounds is wishful thinking.
For now, Israel is by default committed to continuing the status quo an ethnocratic state, one in which demographics are not in their favor.
We shall soon see if the technical solution (Barrier wall plus missile interceptors) is feasible, whether it can defeat massive salvos, and if so, for how long it remains so.

[skyhook77sfg]

I do not think it can be reasonably doubted that the United States is more hostile to democracy in the Middle East than it is today in any other region in the world. The threat posed to US interests by a democratic Egypt, a democratic Jordan or a democratic Saudi Arabia all resolve to the fact that they would be hostile to Israel. Actions taken by the US in support of Middle East dictatorships are reasonably seen as aimed ultimately at supporting Israel. Retaliations against US actions in the region, for example on 9/11/2001, are part of the cost the US paid for its support for Israel. Resources the US expends in preventing future attacks, such as the occupation of Afghanistan, the destabilization of Pakistan, and the check-in lines in US domestic airports are further costs to the US of its relationship with Israel.

The fact of the matter is that absent Israel, the United States does not have any strategic dispute with the people of the Middle East. No more than it does with the people of West Africa or the northern coast of South America. (Regions that are not perfect, but drastically less problematic for the US than the Middle East.) But given a US commitment to Israel's viability, the United States has a huge dispute with the people of the Middle East who do not share the dominant US assumption that Israel's security is the primary moral consideration of the region.

Israel is a delicate state whose long term survival depends on vigorous ongoing efforts to ensure that the much more populous states around it are not able to impose what they see as justice by forcing Israel to accept the refugees and give up its status as a majority Jewish state. The US has historically been wealthy enough be bear that burden, and more-or-less achieve its objectives while also ensuring that Israel's region remains weak enough for Israel to survive. It is not clear, and in fact US leaders are beginning to say that it is not clear, that the US will be willing and able to do so indefinitely.

Americans really want to believe that the relationship between the United States and Israel is not purely sentimental. That Israel is doing the US some service. It is very difficult for Americans to face the idea that there is only one direction in which support is flowing in this relationship.

http://mideastreality.blogspot.com/2010 ... nship.html

[AzariLoveIran]

[Caskhades]

[skyhook77sfg]

no, not an obsession...

just reaffirming US interests over foreign interests.

when US cant afford national health care for its own...

why finance it for ungrateful foreigners?

Congressman Ron Paul has the answer.

[Caskhades]

[Tinker]

The word 'Conspiracy' is loaded.

There is certainly a global zionist political movement.

[monster_gardener]

[skyhook77sfg]

THE ABOVE...

"the last time the US withdrew into isolationism, abdicating its global role,"



leaves that peculiar aftertaste smacking of pretension to divine right to rule...

a particularly noxious notion to the yeomen of washingtonian and jeffersonian democracy born on the north american continent.

leads to the autonomic reflex popularly called gagging by common sense americans.

and expulsion of odious contents .

[AzariLoveIran]

[Caskhades]

[Azrael]