The Iran Thread

[Sparky]

[AzariLoveIran]

[Sparky]

[Tinker]

[AzariLoveIran]

[Sparky]

[AzariLoveIran]

[Sparky]

[AzariLoveIran]

[Caskhades]

I was amused enough by the exchange to dig up my copy of "The Cambridge history of Iran: From Nadir Shah to the Islamic Republic"
-Willam Fisher, Peter Avery, Gavin Hambly, and Charles Melville

p. 583:
"Eighteen and nineteenth century Iran [...] remained a slave owning and slave-importing society. Slaves reached Iran from several directions: from across the Aras river, from across the frontier with the vilayat of Baghdad, and by way of the Persian Gulf. Christian Armenians and Georgians from the Caucasus region were brought back in border forayes. After the sack of Tiflis in 1795, Agha Muhammad Khan is said to have carried off 15,000 Georgians into slavery, mainly women and children. The women became household slaves, while the more attractive were placed in the harems of the nobility. Young males were frequently castrated. [...] The abducting of women across the border continued throughout the 19th century.
Apart form Caucasian Christians, most slaves in Iran were of African origin. There were used mostly as forced agricultural workers in the south, and especially in the date plantations of the garmsir.

[AzariLoveIran]

[Caskhades]

So let me get this straight: from the dawn of writing and record-keeping to the present, Iran has been ruled by ruthless foreigners alien to the true spirit of Iran, foreigners who introduced systems of slave ownership in Iran?

Let me know what the "native" dynasties were. I can just as easily bring references to the centrality of slave-based economies in the Safavid era, Sassanid era or even Parthian era.

It's as if I were claiming that the British never had slaves, because all those slave owners were really Roman, Saxon, Norman and Hannoverian invaders. The true British people were always pure and clear of sin as the most azure sky, as a most unmuddled lake.

[Sparky]

[Tinker]

Azari It's interesting, because you are arguing against Iran's greatness. Though you don't seem to realize it.

When you deny one's foibles, you eventually must deny the whole being. Rumi probably understood that.

You are ultimately wishing Iran out of existence in your attempt to defend it against imagined enemies.

[AzariLoveIran]

[Sparky]

It's not a question of winning or losing, merely about the facts. History clearly shows that slavery has existed in Persia during the last 5000 years. During this time period the Persian civilisation has both enslaved others and been enslaved by others.

Your answer to Caskhades' post amounts to "yes". That's good I guess - what do you know? Never had any slavery in Britain. It's all the work of those bloody Celts, Romans, [insert name of people to blame for past misdeeds here], etc.

[AzariLoveIran]

[Sparky]

[AzariLoveIran]

[Sparky]

[Tinker]

Very interesting debate. ALI, not accepting the foibles of ones culture hinders a culture on its path to greatness. In the West we have to brace ourselves against our colonial past. We have to accept slavery and genocide as a part of our history. The greater the culture the greater the wickedness, as greatness is not a moral virtue, but has to do with power. If we want to talk about moral virtue then Bhutan is the greatest civilization on the planet, but that's not how we define greatness. We define greatness by power and glory. And a part of that is slavery.

[Endovelico]

[AzariLoveIran]

[Tinker]

[Colonel Sun]