There has never been any such thing as Universal Care

[lzzrdgrrl]

[Mr. Perfect]

I will respond lzz with this.

I love my coverage, from the first job I got that provided till the present day, and at no time would I ever have wanted to choose a government plan. Never.

Will you accommodate somebody like me?

[noddy]

aslong as they let you keep your private coverage, i still dont understand the difference really.

* before the death panels(1) decided who was poor enough to get subsidised coverage
* after the death panels(1) decide who is first in line.

both situations are constrained by the amount of tax money available for healthcare.

there is some argument that its good to keep the ability to not choose one at all - id like that option, but suspect id end up with surprise bills because the ambulance guy wasnt aware of it before he took me to the hospital after scraping me off the road.

our version of it penalizes you for not getting private if the death panels(1) think you could have afforded it anyway, so the personal responsiblity rhetoric is not relevant per se, its enforced.

(1) death panels or granny killers being the most amusing (2) part of the rhetorical shit fight i have witnessed..

(2) you got to be amused, otherwise its all just surreal.

[Mr. Perfect]

Well I think I made my point, the rest of it is academic from here on out.

Obama care is going down, medicare is going down, and we'll finally have some freedom back in this country.

As soon as employees start paying around 40% of their own insurance premium they will start to look to buy it themselves outright. Once that happens, the State Insurance Commissioners are dead in the water, and the great deregulation will commence, and costs will drop dramatically.

[skyhook77sfg]

NORWEGIANS SWEDES FINNS DANES DUTCH GERMANS etc

will be so so sad to be told MR PEE has declared

they CANNOT BE FREE BY DEFINITION

because they provide more health care

than US for less money to everybody

especially the unproductive poor

whose ability to reproduce

MR PEES social darwinism

says should be curtailed.


the shallow end of the gene pool

is actually where MR PEE and his kind

can be found exhibiting the bloody

in tooth and claw neolitihic world view

human enlightenment still struggles to overcome.

[CgDs]

[skyhook77sfg]

METHINKS RATIONING BASED ON WEALTH NOT VERY MORAL...

rationing based upon expected outcome, quality of life, life expectancy

seems somewhat less mercenary and humane....


there will always be pay for service private arrangements possible with medical businessmen...

but why shouldnt healers be allowed to heal as many as they can?



for some vague unproveable notion of economic theory

practitioners of the dismal "science" cant even agree on?

hope not.

[the glowing carp]

[CgDs]

[Tinker]

Mr. Perfect You are absolutely right. What I would like to see from the right is more private solutions to these problems, as private solutions would indeed be superior. The problem is one of negative action vs positive action. The right doesn't do much positive action, only negative action. The left leads and the right tries to stop them. The right does not acknowledge that the system as it is, is indeed broken and in need of fixing. I agree with the right wing that it needn't necessarily be solved by public sources. But it does need solving. I'd love to hear innovative solutions.

[skyhook77sfg]

CG'S BRILLIANT LOGIC HAS PERSUADED ME TO CHANGE THE ERROR OF MY WAYS


clearly only private enterprise can be entrusted to efficiently administer life and death programs.

will now refocus on privatizing DOD, army, navy air force, marines

will be replaced by Blackwater/Xe and Triple Canopy.


police and fire departments will be replaced by Dyncorp and Omega Security Solutions.

no pay.... no put out fire.

BRILLIANT

JUST BRILLIANT

[Mr. Perfect]

[Mr. Perfect]

[Mr. Perfect]

[CgDs]

[Tinker]

[Mr. Perfect]

[Tinker]

[skyhook77sfg]

speaking of leaving things up to individual choice CG....


New England Journal of Medicine includes a nice audit study by Joanna Bisgaier and Karin Rhodes conducted here in Cook County. Between January and May 2010, research assistants called a stratified random sample outpatient medical specialty clinics. The calls followed a standard script. Each of these clinics received two phone calls, one month apart, from the same research assistant, who would pose as the mother of a child with a rather significant medical complaint who was seeking outpatient care.

There was one key difference between the two calls. In one of them, the RA stated that her child was insured by Medicaid or CHIP. In another call, the RA stated that her child was insured through Blue Cross-Blue Shield. (The state of Illinois provided dummy Medicaid identification numbers and other help to the study, in part to comply with a consent decree stemming from a class-action suit.)

At one level, the results speak for themselves. Wallet biopsies matter. Overall, 66% of the callers reporting public insurance coverage were denied appointments, compared with only 11% of those reporting private coverage.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/ten-mi ... 030312.php


SO FREE CHOICE FOR WALLET BIOPSIES TO RATION HEALTH CARE IS YOUR CHOICE?

a mensch would say no.

[CgDs]

[Tinker]

[CgDs]

[Tinker]

[skyhook77sfg]

CG

your curtain call comment above:



"BTW, there is, despite the introduction, not a shred of individual choice and responsibility in the above illustration."


GEE WHIZ HOW COULD ONE BE SO SILLY TO THINK

that a study that studied the influence of private insurance vs public insurance

on the choice of whether to provide healthcare or not provide care

was not according to you about choice at all .

thanks for the insight.

nice chatting with you.

cheers

[CgDs]