Waterboarding

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PEDOPHILIA FIXATION?

NO

JUST DISGUST DISMAY AND ABHORRENCE

child molesters belong in cells with big bubbas

that know just what do with them.

[Mr. Perfect]

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why do you keep bothering me with your nagging negative naterbob inanities?

if you didnt

i wouldnt.

cheers.

[Colonel Sun]

[amos]

[Mr. Perfect]

[Mr. Perfect]

[skyhook77sfg]

Havent seen one iota of substantitve refutation...
yet you continue the nattering nabob of negativity routine
to quote a Republican stalwart of yore.

the persistence of pervert pedophile party hacks is preposterously presumptive

mr pee give it a rest


puhleese

[Mr. Perfect]

[skyhook77sfg]

Thank you Col Sun and Amos

for your rationality and humor

with your permission following is germane:


ENOUGH FOR RATIONAL PEOPLE TO SAY NO TO TORTURE

NEVER ENOUGH FOR SADISTIC SOCIOPATHS

Khalid Shaikh Mohammed was captured in Pakistan in 2003, with al-Libbi following suit in 2005. A U.S. official tells the Associated Press reports that Mohammed gave up the courier’s nom de guerre, Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti, while in one of the CIA’s brutal “black site” prisons. As Marcy Wheeler notes, that’s not the same thing as saying the 183 waterboarding sessions Mohammed received led interrogators to the nom de guerre. But let’s be charitable to them and presume it did. According to the Washington Post, al-Libbi confirmed the alias as well.

From what we know so far, that’s about all waterboarding yielded for the hunt for al-Kuwaiti.


The senior administration official told reporters on Sunday that “for years, we were unable to identify his true name or his location.” It took until “four years ago” — 2007, then — for intelligence officials to learn al-Kuwaiti’s real name. By then, President Bush had ceased waterboarding and shuttered the black sites, moving the detainees within them, including Mohammed and al-Libbi, to Guantanamo Bay. In a Monday interview, Donald Rumsfeld said “normal” interrogation techniques were used at Gitmo on those detainees.

If this timeline is correct — and there may be a lot of adjustment to it in the days and years to come — then that means waterboarding and other abusive techniques failed to get the name out of Khalid Shaikh Mohammed and Abu Faraj al-Libbi. A New York Times account has both men claiming not to know even the courier’s nom de guerre, which actually may have counted as a kind of confirmation by omission in this case. That says something about the limits of brute force in interrogation.

It took more traditional sleuthing to get al-Kuwaiti’s real name, according to the Times. That meant putting more operatives on the ground in Afghanistan and Pakistan to track him, yielding a partial name. Once they had that, they unleashed “one of their greatest investigative tools“: the National Security Agency’s surveillance net. The NSA monitored email and phone traffic until they had his full name: Shaikh Abu Ahmed.

Last summer, the Associated Press reports, al-Kuwaiti/Ahmed made a fatal mistake: he called someone under NSA surveillance. After showing up on the grid, CIA operatives on the ground were able to hunt him. In July, CIA’s team of Pakistani informants tailed him, writing down his license plate number. That led them to the Abbottabad compound, which was off the communications grid to avoid precisely the mistake that al-Kuwaiti/Ahmed made. Even so, as my colleague David Axe explores in detail, lots of overhead surveillance tools helped U.S. intelligence isolate and understand the compound.

Everyone involved in the takedown of bin Laden can be proud of their contributions — especially the CIA, which has taken a ton of criticism for implementing the old torture program during the years after 9/11. And the torture question isn’t just an operational one, it’s a moral one: even had torture led directly to bin Laden, the morality of torture requires a separate moral judgment (as well as a legal one).

In this rather huge example, those questions appear less relevant. Waterboarding and other torture methods didn’t give the real name and location of the courier. Old fashioned human spying and electronic dragnets did that. For now, the most that can be said about the “enhanced interrogation program” is that it may have led to the nom de guerre of the courier, which got the ball rolling. That’s not nothing, and it complicates the operational case against torture. But even that is less than certain, and it hit its limits when trying to ascertain Ahmed’s real name.

“One would think that if so-called ‘enhanced interrogations’ provided the magic silver bullet,” writes Jane Mayer of the New Yorker, who’s expertly chronicled torture in the post-9/11 era, “and if the courier was a protégé of K.S.M.’s, then the C.I.A. might have wrapped this up back in 2003, while they were waterboarding the 9/11 mastermind a hundred and eighty-three times.”

If anything, the bin Laden hunt is a positive indicator for future intelligence efforts now that the “enhanced interrogation program” is over. Interrogations are now the province of joint FBI-CIA-military teams. And intelligence officials are now poring over a “mother lode” of captured hard drives from bin Laden’s compound to roll up other senior al-Qaida operatives. They won’t even have to simulate drowning someone to get them.

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/05 ... bin-laden/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Mr. Perfect]

Yet another article with no condemnation of the Clinton torture program.

[Mr. Perfect]

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when chief spook neither denies nor confirms

no conclusion can logically be drawn

illogical conclusions of course can be

and anyone that knows anything

about classified operations knows

spooks do everything they can

to disguise, deceive, distract

from sources/methods.

give it a rest mr pee.

[skyhook77sfg]

when chief spook neither denies nor confirms

no conclusion can logically be drawn

illogical conclusions of course can be

and anyone that knows anything

about classified operations knows

spooks do everything they can

to disguise, deceive, distract

from sources/methods.

give it a rest mr pee.

[Mr. Perfect]

[skyhook77sfg]

hopeless.

simply hopeless

tautology.

[Mr. Perfect]

Truth.

[Colonel Sun]

[monster_gardener]