Diegetics

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This a war crime .. belongs to War crime Thread

This nothing to do with Muslim world .. those killed where not Muslim dead, they humans of any denomination

This belongs to American Thread or .. if you want .. Christian thread

I am protesting

Tinker , I am complaining .. YMix trying to hide this somewhere nobody will find


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Hmmmm

Agree .. speechless


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Of course what they did were war crimes. That's why they're on trial and will be lucky if they're only rotting in jail. If they would just place these sadistic bastards in a room with those of us disgusted with what they did...what they f-ing wanted to do to probably the same children many of us gave candy to so we could have the small pleasure of seeing the child smile, and maybe imagine we were home with our children...words simply fail me.

However, like Nazi Germany? BS. No high-level leaders in the chain of command are ordering this...no 4-Star Reichsmarshall Göring stooge chairing a Wannsee conference-redux in the Beltway, gleefully ordering mass-extermination of Pashtuns.

Quite the opposite. billions of dollars spent, hundreds of our own lives lost, thousands of the very innocents in Afghanistan we wanted to protect lost...all for a COIN strategy that is so delicate that it can potentially be undone by a single squad of sociopath oxygen wasters. Maybe someone needs to ask a seminar at the War College if we can trust all of our own troops to conduct a successful COIN strategy when a statistically small sample set of troops can cause such a dramatic strategic loss (or, to put it another way, in light of the Saw I, II, III, IV... random sociopath generation that we seem to have created). Hard to see a light at the end of this tunnel. We'll be lucky if the worst is some brilliant negotiated withdrawal paired with some flimsy "coalition" government with the Taliban included.

Fuck this is bad. Like Abu Ghraib on steroids, after 10-years of HGH, with Charlie Sheen providing commentary. Bad for any hope of "success" from a strategic sense. Bad for those who will be killed in direct retaliation (like the 2 Airmen shot in Frankfurt, reportedly because the shooter was inspired by the Kill Squad videos on YouTube). And bad with no way to express in a way that gives justice, to the victims of these war crimes. It truly is the Mai Lai moment, and I won't be surprised in the least if it is followed by a Tet-redux.

The deployment of a counter insurgency strategy to a successful outcome is difficult even for specialists in this demanding endeavor...US Army Special Forces.

There are a number of skillsets that must be mastered before a Special Forces NCO or officer is "three qualified" and ready for down range operations.

Each member of a SF team has a specialty but is crosstrained in two other skills. Most are oin their late 20;s, thirties, forties. They have been handpicked

for ability to adapt to foreign cultures and usually have a language or two or three in their 100 lb rucksack.


That is why some time ago I posted the Afghanistan AO (area of operations) should be turned over to Army Special Operations.

Sending 19 year old marginally mentally fit kids with a couple of months training into the Kush where virtually all operations are by small units invites disasters of all kinds.


This particular one is the mother of disasters to come.

These boys made hideous decisions

and will pay a deservedly steep price.


But the commanders that put them there

way beyond their ability to cope

made a bad decision too but will

get a medal or two instead.

what happens when you take illiterate gangbangers from the burbs, who respect nothing and care for nooone including themselves, pump em full of amphetamines and then drop em in a shitstorm with heavy weapons and unlimited ammo.

with my sense of the western burbs and the types that can be found in it, im actually just surprised this sort of thing isnt much more common.

not sure who im agreeing or disagreeing with either... iraq never made sense to me.

the original slapping the shit out of the taliban and al queda did make sense to me .. blowback is blowback and that lot deserved it...but the ongoing afhgan occupation never made sense to me either.

Actually Alexander was not defeated in Afghanistan.

That's why Afghans still sing epic songs to the Great Iskandar...

really epic...hours long.

Greek colonies and culture lived on in Afghanistan

long after Iskandar was buried in a still undisovered tomb.

Some say near his city Alexandria.

Others say no...

Siwa oasis where Osirian priests pronounced his divinity
and promised Alexander would conquer Persia....
which he did and then chased that coward Darius
etc.

Couple of issues beyond what I've already said...

Good point Skyhook. I say again, our COIN strategy is incredible risky because it's too damn delicate, with far too much risk to strategic loss when "strategic corporals" make these kind of criminal choices. Another reason is we (U.S.) are the wrong country to have the patience to execute long-term all the requirements of the strategy (especially the offensive lines of operation still occurring during stabilization efforts).

Col Sun;
I re-read the story, and it says they "discussed scenarios" in which they would toss candy, then kill kids, but it doesn't sound like it happened. Additionally, the article mentions only 3 more actual kills (which was dubbed "a wild shooting spree"). Up till now, I was under the vague impression they had killed many more (1 or many kind of irrelevant if you're the 1 though). Also, the article has the standard biases...like the writers claiming these activities and attitudes are widespread in the Army, and then not offering the proof; that a Lewey would be in a position to "know" or "suspect" that the killing of Gul Muldin in the field was murder...as if he should have known based on some villagers claiming otherwise, while all his men present claimed the two had been attacked and returned fire, in full compliance with ROEs. The reason that is so flawed, is he was in the hut with the elder (probably having Chai) when he heard the shots. He gets on scene, and is told conflicting stories, but a standard defensive ROE scenario from his entire squad. Villagers claim otherwise, but any guess how often villagers are helpful in identifying perpetrators after someone is sniped or had an IED go off on them while doing a foot patrol? Same thing when they complain to the battalion XO...again, remember the context (that you identify...ID'ing the "bad guy" when they blend into an indifferent population). As for "it was well known" that this was going on throughout the platoon, and the company, I'd bet most of this "known" was nothing more than RUMINT (like, Sgt XX's wife is f-ing PFC ZZZ), versus having proof that they killed. And that's key...how do you act (assuming writer meant prosecute) based on vague suspicion, but zero proof? Now, after the fact, the Big Army is using power and threats that would never be available to a low-level squad Leader LT, and realistically not even to a company commander (I.e. to prosecute because "something doesn't feel right"). One last personal critique: the enlisted dislike of officers is especially acute in the Army. One of the best portrayals of how a platoon LT is viewed/treated is the Lt in "Heartbreak Ridge" (yea, Marines, but good overall example). Kind of silly to suggest the low-level CGOs would get open discussions from the enlisted, especially if most of the members of that squad knew, and had decided to maintain some wrong-headed infantry version of the "blue shield" to protect the guy who would keep him alive if they were ambushed.

Lastly, the stress these infantry foot patrol members face, that members inside small FOBs face (like in RESTREPO) is intense. Much like the generation walking villages of the Vietnam Highlands, in which the enemy dresses like the locals, eats like the locals, works the fields like the locals (umm...maybe they are the locals???), these soldiers and marines feel like they have little hope of accomplishing the "big picture" mission, and don't want to be the "last man to die for a mistake."

This entire situation is f-cked. I feel for the soldiers...and I can't get the mental image of Gul Muldin's murder out of my head. I've met an Afghan named Gul (he was 45 though). I've sat with village elders in Iraq and Afghanistan, drinking Chai, trying to earnestly listen to their grievances and provide some measure of respect and relief to their concerns.

Anyone read Bing West's book that just came out about "The Wrong War"? In the jacket, the forward says "Americans are in a war that they can't afford to lose, but a war that they can't win..." Pretty f-ing accurate summation.

Yes he is remembered wherever he went...

perhaps his tutor played a role.

irony is the greatest greek

wasn't greek.

alexander wasnt spartan.

he was macedonian.

terrible movie.

but interesting article.

thanks.

there is a reason your Koresh was revered by many he ruled.

in some ways he and Iskander were much alike.

they respected the OTHER....

the world could use more of that.

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The American people do not will not and never will support such actions. These monsters will be tried and if found guilty will be punished to the fullest extent of the law. This is shameful