Diegetics

I agree that abortion can never obviously be the free choice of a woman, although it is a legitimate opinion. There are people who think that killing and eating animals is obviously the right of every free individual, as there are those that would like to forbid it by law entirely, or only allowed under very specific conditions. To do as if there is no grey area where nothing is really that obvious is just shear denial, hence trying to make abortion the 'obvious' business of individual women where only conservative moralistic pricks can think otherwise... is a wee bit childish.

The golden question however is always how to reduce the number of abortions. Then realism and pragmatism rule. I prefer the not allowed, unless [ criteria a,b,c and preconditions d,e,f are met] formula for abortion, as also for euthenesia. Moral fundamentalism sounds great but it does make victims, too.

This is just leftist desperation after a thorough teabagging. Nothing to see, really.

Humans can't survive for many years withouth the help of another person, willing or not. I'm not sure that is the standard you want to put forward.

Take a new born baby, put him in the woods, how long do you think he lasts?

You've really bit into one here.

why do i pay taxes if i have the personal choice not to support parasitic organisms ?

ST If a child is not parasitic, please demonstrate how the Mother's body is in superior health or at the very least is completely free of undesirable changes after having the child.

How is that relevant?

By that definition, my ex-wife was a parasite. By the end, I was definitely not in superior health nor at the very least completely free of undesirable changes.



...that would explain a lot, actually.

its interesting trying to use facts for these kinds of conversations... truthyness wot wot.

for me the "fact" is in the thinking as much as the current state of our scientific understanding.

quite simply, if i put the parasitic organism hat on, I am also wearing the most selfish and isolated hat I own.

more than that, I happen to strongly dislike and fight against that kind of mentality in myself, because each and everytime it has led me to states of mind that make me despise myself.

maybe i am just a closet fundie.

I think parasites are:

1) Mostly bad

2) Of another species

3) Bred by another species

etc, not a biologist so I will let the biologists clean it up.

I think that as importantly, America is now a pro-life nation.

As Al Gore would say, the debate is over...

I think that graph shows that ST's position is probably closest to reality - far from debate is over.

the pro lifers have picked up from the previously undecided group (I probably would show up as that) and the pro choicers are varying between just over 50% to just under 50%, with generational fashion trends.