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Diegetics • View topic - 2012

2012

This is a temporary forum for the upcoming US election

Moderator: YMix

Re: 2012

Postby Tinker » Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:57 pm

He needs to pull a Desert Storm and get the fuck out. That's it. No long occupation. No dismantling of the civil service (should such exist) just take out Qaddafi, in chains if you must, but soldiers should have the go ahead to take him out if they cannot subdue him. Then leave and tell them if another one does that, we're coming back. Qaddafi and his sons, they need to go.

It's the smart play. Probably politically unfeasible though.
The canary didn't die because this mine is dangerous, it died because it's lazy and wasn't raised with a proper work ethic.
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Re: 2012

Postby Mr. Perfect » Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:05 pm

Neocons and their chest beating flights of fancy, promising this and that as the USG goes bankrupt. These neocons pop up in the strangest places.

BTW, the US does not run any of this, there are 4 or 5 committees that do all of that now. Good luck.
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Re: 2012

Postby Tinker » Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:07 pm

The canary didn't die because this mine is dangerous, it died because it's lazy and wasn't raised with a proper work ethic.
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Re: 2012

Postby Alph » Thu Mar 31, 2011 2:46 am

Last edited by Alph on Thu Mar 31, 2011 2:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2012

Postby Colonel Sun » Thu Mar 31, 2011 2:48 am

Never criticize anyone until you've walked several kilometres in their shoes.
Because

1. You're now several kilometres away; and

2. You've got their shoes.
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Re: 2012

Postby monster_gardener » Sat Apr 09, 2011 2:47 am

For the love of G_d, may I consider I may be mistaken
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Re: 2012

Postby skyhook77sfg » Mon May 23, 2011 5:20 pm

some say 2012 could go either way at this point...
mayan calendar permitting of course.

but there is a third way ....
hopefully.



The vast majority of Americans believe that Washington has become a fossilized town that is sickeningly out of touch with an America that hungers for leaders who lead, a Congress that acts and a president who stops telling voters they need teachable moments from him and starts listening to what voters, including many of his friends, are telling him.

The president has gone rogue. And Democrats. And Republicans. And everyone in this capital with eyes that don’t see and ears that don’t hear what an unhappy nation is telling them. Voters pray for action, but all they hear is self-praise from those who don’t listen, and all they see is vanity and self-indulgence from those who don’t care.

The American economy is becoming a factory of economic unfairness. Those whose greed almost caused a depression make giant fortunes, demand gargantuan bailouts and gorge on gluttonous bonuses paid for by hard-hit Americans who find their jobs destroyed, their hopes crushed, their dignity insulted and their voices silenced.

In this audacity of greed, the few with the most demand even more, while the many who pay the bills and suffer the pain are sold the great big lie of our times: that the cruel and unusual economy that is a factory of pain for patriots is “the new normal.”

The Federal Reserve Board rewards massive hoarding of money from bailed-out banks that refuse to lend, while Mount Olympus from Washington to Wall Street tells Americans to downsize the dream.

Throughout the nation there is outrage in the land, revolution in the air, insurrection in the wind from the left, right and center. The political ground is shaking from gale-force winds of a national demand for powerful change in the way our corrupted and tone-deaf capital does business.


There is revolution in the air. The epic political question of our times is who will lead it.



http://thehill.com/opinion/columnists/b ... in-the-air
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Re: 2012

Postby YMix » Mon May 23, 2011 5:26 pm

Skyhook, you're a communist singing the tune of bloodthirsty men from Kremlin.
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Re: 2012

Postby skyhook77sfg » Mon May 23, 2011 5:36 pm

am trusting you to be an intelligent fellow prone to occasional biting satirical comment...

actually prefer to see myself as a traditonal (but not slaveowning) Jeffersonian yeoman

who smells the offal in the augean stables of power and isnt afraid to say it aint sweet...

an enemy of false platitudes like ITS ALL GOOD....

and a constitutionalist suspicious

of all exceptionalist doctrines

and utopian ideologies

from communism

to invisible hands

of free market

perfection.


and you sir?
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Re: 2012

Postby YMix » Mon May 23, 2011 5:43 pm

Humanity ought to be the first order of interest for humans.
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Re: 2012

Postby skyhook77sfg » Mon May 23, 2011 6:40 pm

re jeffersonian yeomen...


Jeffersonian ambitions for the nation focused on a republic resting on the sturdy stock of independent farmer-owners .

Under Jefferson's (and then James Madison's) direction, the central government would conscientiously withdraw within the boundaries that they believed had been established when the Constitution was adopted, assuming that the states, "in all their rights," were "the most competent administrations for our domestic concerns and the surest bulwarks against antirepublican tendencies."

The national debt would be retired as rapidly as preexisting contracts would permit, not clung to for its broader economic uses while the interest payments steadily enriched a nonproductive few and forged a dangerous, corrupting link between the federal executive and wealthy moneyed interests. State militias, not professional armed forces, would protect the nation during peacetime. Internal taxes, during peacetime, would be left to the states.

The federal government would cultivate "peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none." Committed to "equal and exact justice to all men, of whatever state or persuasion, religious or political," to religious freedom, freedom of the press, and other constitutional protections (many of which, as Jefferson conceived it, had been gravely threatened during the final years of Federalist rule), the Jeffersonians would conscientiously pursue "a wise and frugal government which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned."


The Jeffersonian Persuasion
by Lance Banning
Cornell University Press, 1978.


LAST QUOTE WORTH REVIVING TODAY

"a wise and frugal government which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned."
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Re: 2012

Postby YMix » Mon May 23, 2011 6:57 pm

If I remember correctly, Jefferson changed his tune during the presidency. By the second term, he was speaking of state-financed infrastructure.
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Re: 2012

Postby skyhook77sfg » Mon May 23, 2011 7:02 pm

state or federal?

or are you referring to Lousiana Purchase?

or the Gallatin Plan which really was Washington's plan?


btw

excerpt from first inaugral address:


About to enter, fellow-citizens, on the exercise of duties which comprehend everything dear and valuable to you, it is proper you should understand what I deem the essential principles of our Government, and consequently those which ought to shape its Administration. I will compress them within the narrowest compass they will bear, stating the general principle, but not all its limitations.

Equal and exact justice to all men, of whatever state or persuasion, religious or political; peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none; the support of the State governments in all their rights, as the most competent administrations for our domestic concerns and the surest bulwarks against antirepublican tendencies; the preservation of the General Government in its whole constitutional vigor, as the sheet anchor of our peace at home and safety abroad; a jealous care of the right of election by the people—a mild and safe corrective of abuses which are lopped by the sword of revolution where peaceable remedies are unprovided; absolute acquiescence in the decisions of the majority, the vital principle of republics, from which is no appeal but to force, the vital principle and immediate parent of despotism; a well disciplined militia, our best reliance in peace and for the first moments of war, till regulars may relieve them; the supremacy of the civil over the military authority; economy in the public expense, that labor may be lightly burthened; the honest payment of our debts and sacred preservation of the public faith; encouragement of agriculture, and of commerce as its handmaid; the diffusion of information and arraignment of all abuses at the bar of the public reason; freedom of religion; freedom of the press, and freedom of person under the protection of the habeas corpus, and trial by juries impartially selected.

These principles form the bright constellation which has gone before us and guided our steps through an age of revolution and reformation. The wisdom of our sages and blood of our heroes have been devoted to their attainment. They should be the creed of our political faith, the text of civic instruction, the touchstone by which to try the services of those we trust; and should we wander from them in moments of error or of alarm, let us hasten to retrace our steps and to regain the road which alone leads to peace, liberty, and safety.
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Re: 2012

Postby YMix » Mon May 23, 2011 7:14 pm

Humanity ought to be the first order of interest for humans.
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Re: 2012

Postby skyhook77sfg » Mon May 23, 2011 7:25 pm

you are quite right in every respect here...

but the jeffersonian mainspring was nurturing a nation of yeomen farmers...

and Washington's vision of the need for a network of roads and canals

to unite producers with ports and markets proved correct

especially after Louisiana Purchase.


so you might say pragmatism trumped ideology.

worse has happened eh?
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Re: 2012

Postby YMix » Mon May 23, 2011 7:28 pm

Humanity ought to be the first order of interest for humans.
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Re: 2012

Postby skyhook77sfg » Mon May 23, 2011 8:25 pm

touche.....

but according to prevalent legal norms of the day incuding papal bulls currently in force.....

native heathens had no say in transactions of the French crown...

or Spanish or English or Portugeese or Dutch...

(did we miss any rulers by divine right)

sure was a good deal though

for the new champions

of natural god given rights

eh what?
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Re: 2012

Postby YMix » Mon May 23, 2011 8:29 pm

It certainly was.
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Re: 2012

Postby Colonel Sun » Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:37 pm

Never criticize anyone until you've walked several kilometres in their shoes.
Because

1. You're now several kilometres away; and

2. You've got their shoes.
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Re: 2012

Postby Azrael » Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:32 pm

Funny story, Colonel Sun; but also scary, since it indicates how easily people can be fooled by Wikipedia vandalism.

It looks like Sarah Palin is in big trouble. If you're a Republican and even thinks you're a nut, nut is your middle name.
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Re: 2012

Postby YMix » Thu Jun 09, 2011 6:05 pm

Writing and reading history are partly political acts. :)
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Re: 2012

Postby YMix » Thu Jun 09, 2011 6:20 pm

Humanity ought to be the first order of interest for humans.
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Re: 2012

Postby AzariLoveIran » Fri Jun 10, 2011 7:51 am

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Re: 2012

Postby Azrael » Sat Jun 11, 2011 4:00 am

Eat and drink what you like. Speaking English is apparently what kills you.
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Re: 2012

Postby Mr. Perfect » Sat Jun 11, 2011 5:24 am

Image
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