Are the Debt Ceiling negotiations a con?

[Mr. Perfect]

You are the one living in ignorance. The banks were doing exactly what the government regulators wanted. The Democrat ones anyway.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[skyhook77sfg]

no they werent by any stretch of anyones imagination except in your partisan driven pathology....

they were playing musical chairs between the SEC and jp citi goldman et al....

looking out for numero uno and their fellow parasites...

MADOFF WAS TURNED IN SEVERAL TIMES IN THE TEN YEARS BEFORE....

WITH DOCUMENTATION OF FRAUD....

NOBODY DID A DAMN THING

UNTIL HIS $50 BILLION SCAM IMPLODED...


GET A GRIP ON REALITY MR APPARATCHIK

[Mr. Perfect]

Sorry, the facts simply are on my side and not yours. Madoff (Democrat) is a scammer, like many before him and many after, but he had nothing to do with the subprime mortgages meltdown. Nothing.

If you want to get into some facts, start here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Mr. Perfect]

ANd I'm still waiting for you explanation on how a CDS can fail if the underlying mortgage does not default. I can't wait for that one.

[skyhook77sfg]

lets stick with the issue instead of your made up ones:

for the last time....



The government’s takeover of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac was not actually a bailout of the mortgage giants. It was a bailout of the financial derivatives industry, which was faced with a $1.4 trillion "event of default" that could have bankrupted Wall Street and much of the rest of the financial world.

To explain the enormous risk involved, Amerman posits a scenario in which the mortgage giants are not bailed out by the government. When they default on the $5 trillion in bonds and mortgage-backed securities they own or guarantee, settlements are immediately triggered on $1.4 trillion in credit default swaps entered into by major financial firms, which have promised to make good on Fannie/Freddie defaulted bonds in return for very lucrative fee income and multi-million dollar bonuses. The value of the vulnerable bonds plummets by 70%, causing $1 trillion (70% of $1.4 trillion) to be due to the "protection buyers." This is more money, however, than the already-strapped financial institutions have to spare. The CDS sellers are highly leveraged themselves, which means they depend on huge day-to-day lines of credit just to stay afloat. When their creditors see the trillion dollar hit coming, they pull their financing, leaving the strapped institutions with massive portfolios of illiquid assets.

The dreaded cascade of cross-defaults begins, until nearly every major investment bank and commercial bank is unable to meet its obligations. This triggers another massive round of CDS events, going to $10 trillion, then $20 trillion. The financial centers become insolvent, the markets have to be shut down, and when they open months later, the stock market has been crushed. The federal government and the financiers pulling its strings naturally feel compelled to step in to prevent such a disaster, even though this rewards the profligate speculators at the expense of the Fannie/Freddie shareholders who will get wiped out. Amerman concludes:

"It’s the best game in town. Take a huge amount of risk, be paid exceedingly well for it and if you screw up -- you have absolute proof that the government will come in and bail you out at the expense of the rest of the population (who did not share in your profits in the first place)."



SO


Just ignore private-sector bankster secu­ri­ties fraud

all those mortgage bankers issuing crap they knew was crap

but that they could sell to cdo packagers like goldman

ignore SEC fail­ure to reg­u­late,

ignore the dereg­u­la­tion that mur­dered Glass-Steagall,

ignore the 1999 Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act

or the (Phil Gramm) 2000 Com­mod­ity Futures Mod­ern­iza­tion Act,

and the $1.4 Quadrillion-dollar LUNACY of deriv­a­tives snake eyes bets...


focus on out of control government instead....

yeah thats it...

government made them do it...

yeah held a gun to all those pinstriped heads



One more time....

Gov­ern­ment debt is not the issue.

Gov­ern­ment debt is mis­di­rec­tion.


Corporate dereg­u­la­tion, failure of corporate fiduciary duty and corporate criminal fraud

triggered the Bush eco­nomic crisis of 2008 which resulted in the invisible hand of the market

dipping deeeply into taxpayers pockets to the tune of a TRILLION DOLLARS or so....

except it wasnt invisible...

except to you.

[the glowing carp]

[Mr. Perfect]

[skyhook77sfg]

the goebbels technique

dont work no mo

no mo

no mo

no mo

no mo

no mo


cause its too obvious

too tedious

too

too

too

like too totally retro dude

so lets not bore everybody with it

you in?

[Mr. Perfect]

Hey a Nazi invocation! What a surprise!

If you can't back up your claims just invoke a Nazi!

[skyhook77sfg]

so stop using their propaganda techniques

if you are not comfortable

with it being pointed out

[Mr. Perfect]

I haven't told a lie though. If anyone is lying you are. You are a liar.

A CDS cannot fail unless the underlying debt instrument defaults, that was the truth hundreds of years ago, today, and hundreds of years from now. You cannot change this fact. You are either lying or an idiot. I will let you choose. The truth is one my side. You can only lie to perpetuate your position. A credit default swap cannot fail unless the underlying debt instrument goes into default.

You dispute this with fact right now or shut up about it, for good.

[skyhook77sfg]

oh my getting pushy are we

puffling up like a charging iguana

demanding people shut up now


well thats what a lot of us think

you should do but we refrain

from saying so because

we are not egocentric narcissists


I SAY AGAIN IT WAS NOT THE UNDERLYING MORTGAGES THAT CAUSED THE CRISIS AND THE TRILLION DOLLAR CHENEYBUSH BAILOUT OF WALL STREET PARASITES...


The government’s takeover of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac was not actually a bailout of the mortgage giants. It was a bailout of the financial derivatives industry, which was faced with a $1.4 trillion "event of default" that could have bankrupted Wall Street and much of the rest of the financial world.

To explain the enormous risk involved, Amerman posits a scenario in which the mortgage giants are not bailed out by the government. When they default on the $5 trillion in bonds and mortgage-backed securities they own or guarantee, settlements are immediately triggered on $1.4 trillion in credit default swaps entered into by major financial firms, which have promised to make good on Fannie/Freddie defaulted bonds in return for very lucrative fee income and multi-million dollar bonuses. The value of the vulnerable bonds plummets by 70%, causing $1 trillion (70% of $1.4 trillion) to be due to the "protection buyers." This is more money, however, than the already-strapped financial institutions have to spare. The CDS sellers are highly leveraged themselves, which means they depend on huge day-to-day lines of credit just to stay afloat. When their creditors see the trillion dollar hit coming, they pull their financing, leaving the strapped institutions with massive portfolios of illiquid assets.

The dreaded cascade of cross-defaults begins, until nearly every major investment bank and commercial bank is unable to meet its obligations. This triggers another massive round of CDS events, going to $10 trillion, then $20 trillion. The financial centers become insolvent, the markets have to be shut down, and when they open months later, the stock market has been crushed. The federal government and the financiers pulling its strings naturally feel compelled to step in to prevent such a disaster, even though this rewards the profligate speculators at the expense of the Fannie/Freddie shareholders who will get wiped out. Amerman concludes:

"It’s the best game in town. Take a huge amount of risk, be paid exceedingly well for it and if you screw up -- you have absolute proof that the government will come in and bail you out at the expense of the rest of the population (who did not share in your profits in the first place)."

got it mr goebbels imitator?

[Mr. Perfect]

In other words you are lying and cannot come up with a way that a CDS can fail without the underlying debt defaulting first. Am I right?

Do you not know what you're talking about or are you lying?

[skyhook77sfg]

why not deal with what i actually posted just a little above your last whine?

[Mr. Perfect]

I have, you don't have the intelligence to process it. No derivatives firms would ever had to have been bailed out if the subprime market either never existed or had not defaulted. That is simply fact.

You are either a liar or an idiot, I will let you choose.

[skyhook77sfg]

magister mundi eh?


well at least you are admitting it was the derivatives that required the bailout.

bravo

progress

you are catching up to reality.

[Mr. Perfect]

I would leave the Captain Obvious routine to Ibrahim, oddly it suits him better.

The bottom line is and will remain, that the root cause was the collapse of the subprime market. No CDS can fail if the underlying does not default first.

The bailout of the derivatives firms was the bailout of the subrpime lenders. The root cause was the subprime market.

This is simply the truth. Whether you can grasp it or not.

[the glowing carp]

[I am ST]

[Colonel Sun]

Perceptive article. Thanks.

Democratic politics was never meant to be an exercise in aesthetics.

indeed.

You want aesthetics? Go to a military parade in N Korea celebrating the Great Leader.

[Demon of Undoing]

[Mr. Perfect]

Hilarious. In this thread two socialists go on an anti-free market tirade based on purely ignorant anti-intellectualism, I quickly hand them their @$$es and then bloodied and invoking Nazism, they beg me to take the blame they would not take themselves to start with.

No thanks, I'll maintain my position of handing them their @$$e$ when I feel like it.

[noddy]

aint nothing free about the housing market or the economic one and more government control wont help it.

the underlying problem of housing getting out of reach of all but double income middle class in much of the anglosphere was the big turd noone wants to touch... not for aslong as this obsession with ever increasing house prices lasts.

all this high minded talk about not leaving debts for your children feh..

[skyhook77sfg]

oh yeah the kraut hammer is great if you also have his retrograde orthodox views

and can handle the sauer aftertaste....


but if you want massive financial fraud on an assembly line scale

come to America where jimmy stewart bankers used to orginate mortgages

from folks who they made sure could pay them off cause jimmy held the paper....


but then a new crowd of simon lagrees figured out they could make tons more fees

by skipping fiduciary duties and with a wink and a nod give huge mortgagees to anyone

who could sign their name to paper that was fed exed to wall street for instant cashout

by firms run by presidential economic gurus who made snake eyes side bets this paper

they called pure shit internally would tank but their accomplices at the rating agencies

stamped all AAA and then was flogged to widow and orphans worldwide as 24 kt gold

with due dilegence efforts to hide the stench of all this shit in their pipeline....


and which their former employees now running the regulatory agencies were promised millions

to snap their red suspenders and look the other way....


but in all this whiter than white collar crime the crooks got out crooked by the offshore subsidiaries

of the other crooks that were laying off the astronomical odds on snake eyes bets with default insurance

their piddling pro forma paper reserves could not pay off and it all blew up in the financial terrorist

bomb factory somewhere between the Fed and the deep blue sea in jpgoldmanciti....


at which point the free market no regulations no government interference gang made a call

to their made man in the taxpayers treasury and soon he was on tv yelling we will kneecap the economy

if you dont give me a trillion bucks for my boys no questions asked no paper trail no law suits

thank you very much...


and you know the rest even if the unorthodox view even if the kraut prefers no to hammer it out for you.

[Mr. Perfect]

I guess you still haven't come up with a scenario on how a swap fails if the underlying doesn't default.

And the whole thing was very regulated. They were doing exactly what the regulators wanted. The Democrat ones anyway. You can learn about it here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs