Incentives to breeding: welfare state v fundamentalism

[Torchwood]

This goes back to a passing comment by ST some months back, cannot find it now because it got lost in a yah-boo-sucks Rhaposdy/Milo v Ibrahim session.

If you want to boost the birth rate (to avoid hopeless dependency ratios) and given that retreating to the conditions of life in Burkina Faso where women still have 7 kids is neither feasible not desirable, then there are the following choices:

(a) The welfare state subsidising the kids
(b) Have lots of young immigrants, like Los Estados Unidos and the United Kingdom of Poland and Pakistan.
(c) Just emphasising “traditional values” (women’s primary role as mothers)
(d) The latter supported by strong religious belief.

Of course (b) has some possible social side effects. The interesting and some what unexpected result is that (c) does not work, indeed it leads to the lowest low fertility rates (TFRs below 1.5), as shown by. When local values force women to choose between careers and children, they choose careers, it seems, unless they have bought into a religious narrrative (or been forced into it).

Option (a) however does have some successes in Scandinavia and France. (d) does seem to result in TFRs above replacement , although not the huge numbers of kids which the primitives had. The downside of the welfare state as a motivator of breeding is that it may not be affordable: the downside of fundamentalism is that members may defect.

I’ll post some more later.

[Pantagruel]

Raise the tax on the child's income by 10% and give the proceeds to the mother. The present value of the transfer payments would be something like $150,000 for a child who earned the median income. Poor mothers could sell the rights to some of this income to cover present expenses. The present value of four children who earned the 80th percentile income (a reasonable target for a serious mother) could easily come to $2,000,000.

[AzariLoveIran]

.

Western male becoming less fertile .. Low Sperm Count: ..that means , to keep the population , probably 4 child per family needed

But raising 4 child extremely expensive .. unaffordable

As said in many occasions .. there should be no-child TAX.. that tax revenue should be paid to people with children

Immigration not the solution .. not only immigration changes the fabric of the society and population, but , the new immigrants, after a generation or two, they too, will acquire EGOIST mindset of west, called individualism in west, and have less child too


Tax Tax Tax the bustards having free ride on those with lots of kids (just jokin)

.

[Mr. Perfect]

[Ibrahim]

[Torchwood]

[Ibrahim]

[I am ST]

Torchwood,

Just a quick post to acknowledge that I'm reading this. I am incredibly caught up with work at the moment, but in 2 or 3 weeks I hope I can post extensively (10 or + multipage posts) on the topic. We might have to take it to Hell, if Tinker doesn't mind, as most of this is unpublished work.

Cheers,

S.T.

[Tinker]

[lzzrdgrrl]

[Caskhades]

[Mr. Perfect]

I find this particularly baffling, that evolutionists are not looking at this like evolutionists.

I've seen this beaten up and rebuilt more times than I can count over the years in the Spenglerverse and so far nobody can figure out why people have kids and why they don't.

So I started asking around. People that have kids, I asked, "why are you doing this?" They say, "I want to". Why do you want to? "I don't know, I just do". I ask people with no kids, why no kids? They respond, "I don't want kids". Why not? "I just don't."

So a huge life decision and people are going with their guts. They can't even tell you why they do what they do with any degree of clarity.

So why study people's deeply difficult to discern highly subjective motives? How can you even do that? Especially when it seems like people are giving us enormous clues.

What do we call it when people do something and can't tell you why? We call it a compulsion. Can you ever really explain a compulsion? Why do people dance? Why do they play an instument, play a sport? It appears to be in our makeup. But of course, we are not all compelled to do the same things, some of us will do this while others do that. There is a word for this is sort of thing even when it comes to human behavior, and that word is trait. IOW the innate desire to have children or not have children is probably an unmolestable aspect of a human being, something they are born with, like the music some people hear in their head and some people don't.

And what does evolution teach us about traits? Some of them end up being unhelpful for survival, and some are. The unhelpful ones are judged to be unfit, and are selected out.

So what is the fuss? This is evolution in action, something to celebrate. Human society has evolved to the point where a huge percentage of the population no longer feels many of the old societal pressures to have kids and are simply following their innate impulses to not have kids. That's all.

And as a result, their genes are selected as unfit, and will be deleted from the genepool, forever. Such people, their genes are simply being erased from reality and as a result are selected as unfit unfit members of the species.

[CgDs]

[YMix]

[Mr. Perfect]

[YMix]

No part of it will escape the brown tide of Ayrabs and Mexicans engulfing Europe and USA! Pour more Riesling, Spengman, I need a drink!

[Mr. Perfect]

That may be true of Europe. I admit to being as baffled as anyone, nobody laments the death of Europe more than Goldman, not even one European. I'm not sure why he is so emotionally invested, I sure am not. Let nature take it's course.

[YMix]

Plenty of Europeans lamenting the death of Europe. I'd say "use Google", but your ignorance of all things non-USA is too entrenched to be easily defeated.

[Mr. Perfect]

I guess. I should have said not one important European laments more than Goldman.

[YMix]

Oh, you mean we have no Rush Limbaugh? I consider that a plus.

[Mr. Perfect]

?

I don't think Rush Limbaugh laments the loss of Europe.

[YMix]

Rush Limbaugh is concerned with the state of the USA. A possible European counterpart would be concerned with the situation in Europe.

[Ibrahim]

[lzzrdgrrl]

[Colonel Sun]