It's not the file sharing, stupid

[YMix]

[Tinker]

The RIAA hasn't accounted for an increase in distribution channels for indy publishers who are not RIAA members. So they also see competition from other artists.

There is also another factor, all media competes with each other. Film competes with music. So, people going and watching legal stuff on Youtube competes.

[Mr. Perfect]

I still buy CDs, but it's almost all old or obscure stuff.

I still buy Blurays, but it's almost all old or obscure stuff.

The product just sucks now. The culture has changed. Only one who may have the key is fontinau, and he isn't talking yet.

[YMix]

[Tinker]

[Mr. Perfect]

[Yukon Cornelius]

Something weird happen at about ~1990 -- Maybe when I saw Queensrÿche at in Dallas about then -- only half of Reunion Arena (really big) venue was used, the other half curtained off. All of a sudden, the big stadium acts that could fill the Cotton Bowl, Texas Stadium, etc. -- what seemed like every week in the summer -- got scaled down to smaller venues.

Now, unless you're U2, or Sailor Twit, I don't think you could sell out an arena that big. Maybe I just zoned out, but it seemed like the market splintered in a huge, huge way. Which goes to Tinker's point about the RIAA.

But the argument that the economy screwing sales is bogus, we had no problem going stark raving mad in the housing market -- you'd think you'd see an uptick commensurate with the economy.

It may be about margins -- most perfectly competitive companies have to deal with thin margins -- it wouldn't take many file sharers to screw that up .

It's probably a combination of all of the above.

[Mr. Perfect]

I have seen bands in bars that I saw in Arenas back in the day. It is so weird.

Nirvana destroyed the business, which is probably fine but nothing took it's place. Except for a few pop novelties here and there, a vast wasteland.

[Yukon Cornelius]

I hear you -- a friend of mind saw Queensrÿche play an Indian Casino in Michigan just a couple months back. (Not that they deserve to be anywhere else -- but better bands have fallen to the same fate.)

But could even Swift sell out Texas Stadium -- or the new Cowboys monstrosity in Arlington?

[Mr. Perfect]

I happened to see the Ryche in Seattle in a theater a few years ago, I would imagine that is their biggest market. Did Mindcrime I and II. Was never a big fan, but good git-tars, by today's standards.

Hardly anybody can fill an arena anymore let alone a stadium. I saw the Killers a few years ago for a novelty, and they couldn't fill even a quarter.

[Mr. Perfect]

Highest energy show I ever saw was Van Halen, early days. The crowd was so loud that it was hard to hear the music sometimes.

[Yukon Cornelius]

[Demon of Undoing]

Night of the Superbowl , Jan 22 1984. Van Halen kicks off what turns out to be the last Van Halen tour at the Lakeland Civic Center , a very small place they booked entirely so they could get the process tuned right. This is back when VH had the Guiness world record for loudest amplifiers , something like half a megawatt in just Marshal stacks. The volume was beyond imagination. Eruption under those circumstances was a religious experience , and Eddie stretched it out for about six minutes. I think they were playing , glad to be back on tour , and they were having fun with it. I was glad to be there.

And no , there are no virtuosos in pop music anywhere near EVH in his prime.

[Colonel Sun]

I think that in music there is a definite survivorship bias.

If you look back at the weekly "top of the charts" lists from the 60's, 70's, and 80's much of the music has been forgotten. Rightly so. Just as has much of the classical music written and everything in between.
Only the good material that has survived the test of time is remembered.

On the other hand, something has changed - the ball was dropped at some point and, in my view, mainstream music today is especially bland. Here I partly agree with Mr. P.
Talented musicians still exist, it's just that they are not able to get mainstream airplay. However, it's now much easier to search for and find such music.

My pet peeve is gansta rap and what it represents, glorifying a very shallow and nihilistic view of life. Plus the so-called music, frankly speaking, sucks.

When it comes to [gansta] rap I'm of the same opinion as Joe Hallenbeck:

[YMix]

[Mr. Perfect]

[Yukon Cornelius]

[Torchwood]

[Colonel Sun]

Is music class compulsory in, say, grades 1 to 10 in the US?

[YMix]

Torchwood, you've pasted the Muse link twice. Be a good chap and relink to that Placebo song.

Edit: Mr. Perfect, I would've thought Pink Floyd too leftist for you.

[Colonel Sun]

[Torchwood]

[Mattmovies]

[Tinker]

In a cab on my phone, so this will be brief. However this touches on what my wife does for a living so I know that we've been supported by her firm telling industry execs what is wrong with their model. There are fewer gold acts but a whole hell of a lot more silver and bronze ones. Niche markets are the new industry. There are talented electronic acts who you have never heard of who can bring 2000 people to venues in hundreds of cities in the world.

The obvious answer for arena rock is Tool.

But you all dont understand Transmedia. Musicians are not just competing with m musicians for your dollar, they are competing with film, apps, video games, software, and various prix fixe subscription services like Pandora or XM Radio. People spend their money differently. The teenage dollar is a highly competitive market. Back when yall were kids music was about the only media consumed by kids.

So music downloading aint hurting the market so much as kids would rather buy Halo for $60 than a cd for $20.

[Tinker]

I think Tool is todays Pink Floyd