The Fabulous Ruins of the United States

[Ibrahim]

[Demon of Undoing]

The Romans thought the policy a good one. Detroit , Dacia. Not much difference.

And yes , there would be for a while more shootings. It would just tend to go the right way.

[Sparky]

What if they start selling the drugs?

[Demon of Undoing]

Then they'd probably do it quieter , with less innocents hurt and with more cooperation with law enforcement ( you guys do know that such is a huge part of the game past a certain point, right ?).

It would be an improvement.

[Ibrahim]

I don't know. These veterans are, statistically, having huge problems with domestic abuse, suicide, depression, and other psychological issues. I'm not sure a pile of crack, guns, and carte blanche to run Detroit are exactly what the doctor ordered.

[Tinker]

[Tinker]

I think a housing program for the military would be a good idea. The military could acquire a lot of housing in areas where housing is cheap to help revitalize areas and provide returning members with housing. I don't know if concentrating them all in a single place is a good idea though. But it's a great way to help regentrify neighborhoods that would otherwise have houses falling down. I think the right recipe would be to setup small zones of housing for returning vets so taht they are surrounded by other vets and can build community, but not that it's so large that you have a huge concentrated population of unemployed citizens who have also been trained to kill.

If a private developer wanted to get in on it, I think the way to go would be to get some kind of contract with the military where they provide returning vets with cheap housing that they buy in bulk from cities or auction houses, where the houses are not able to be sold on the open market. Like say, buy abandoned housing for $ 3000 a piece, but buy 100 units all near one another, but not more than 100. Of course in Detroit you could do several of these areas and scatter them about. You could do this with Cleveland and many other midwestern towns as well.

[CgDs]

[Colonel Sun]

Well, it might work, and then again, it might not.

Probably worth a try given that everything else appears to have failed to date.

One question. Once all these ex-military people would be living in Detroit, what would be the basis of a growing sustainable economy?

[Colonel Sun]

[Ibrahim]

[Demon of Undoing]

Nobody said anything about supplanting locals. There are loads of vacant houses in the city.

And in fairness , if you are going to implement my idea , implement all of my idea.

To wit ;

The returning veteran , especially under current circumstances , represents more of a Federal investment than any other demographic. Between training and health care and the costs associated with a multiyear deployment to a combat zone , I can't think of a higher per capita expenditure. It is ridiculous to let that go down the tubes after four to six years. Significant personal development is not just something we hope happens along the way. Except for the shitbirds that need to in and out , such development is required for advancement. Built upon in a civilian context , in a civilian rubric , but with the latent character , work ethic and above all a continuation of a sense of true , useful service ( as opposed to simply breaking things and killing people) , much is possible. If they can break nations , they can build their own.

In light of that , I say we should ask the guys dodging from hesco to hesco if they' would rather come back to being a burger flipper , or sign on for a few years of college and work as an engineer or a teacher or a whatever is needed , wherever they need it. Federal service without the gunfire and early morning runs.

In terms of jobs , make Detroit the focal point for a concerted action with the same expenditure of effort and treasure that would be expended if it were Baghdad in 2004. Funnel schooling money towards local community colleges and state universities. Actually do something for the crumbling local infrastructure with an eye towards blank-sheet solutions that are forward looking and sustainable ( solar research Mecca ? What could U Mich come up with if you told them they had as much juice to create as Mattis had to destroy in Fallujah ? I bet it would be impressive). Other people can, I am sure , figure out far better things to do than I if provided that kind of force cohesion, concentration of effort and unity of command.

Two things, though. One , this is indeed the sort of centralized Federal , top down initiative that at heart I oppose. However , per the Robert Reich article , we already have a huge military jobs program , and keeping in mind objectives and power blocks , it works. I simply say to convert a Leviathan that we cannot use to bowl over small countries any more , but that is critical to the current way of life, into something that might actually help the country. If we don't disintegrate , we are looking at greater Federal presence any way you cut it.

Second , it's a pipe dream. Considering the various lobbies , like every other meaningful action that has potential to avert disaster , too many entrenched interests and lobbies would eat such a plan alive. In fact , it sort of already has. Obama proposed a civilian service corps ( much weaker effort than my idea ) and it went nowhere. He increased funding for the GI Bill , and nobody could figure a way to use that for the betterment of the nation as a whole.

No, Ibrahim, it would not work, but not because of violence. That's the easy part. No , it wouldn't work because America right now simply has no stomach for a working peace.

[noddy]

im nice and schizo on gun laws and cant find peace with any side of it.

grew up with them, got good at them (I won a few shooting comps during my compulsory army cadets period) and then moved to the city and went shooting with some suburban kids and swore id never touch one again while in the world of modern suburbanites.

this experience left me ambivalent to the change in australias gun laws - pretty much illegal outside gun clubs and rural living.

so i dont have the faith in my current community, and if i challenge this mindset - guns are actually quite low on the list of things we arent allowed to do without "papers please" .. there is not one single aspect of my life which isnt legislated down to lowest common denominator fears and control freak fear worshippers.

the only real difference on these levels between america and us is guns, so i dont accept the argument they make a difference in protecting your other rights either... your government is as big and ugly as ours, your suburbs are as defined as ours, conform or be damned..

[Ibrahim]

[Tinker]

I think Demon has a point, but I reiterate that it is important not to create a veterans ghetto where it's a saturated market. Throwing veterans into a city with no prospects and just making a sea of veterans in a stagnant economy is a great way to breed a homegrown insurgency.

[jerryberry]

Hot house vegetable farms for da Canucks and 'mericans.